Eggs Found In My Tank. Which Of My Tank Tenants Do They Belong To?

Maxine-R said:
I have read the article.

I can now see that the salt is beneficial but isn't a definite requirement with mollies.

Although the idea of adding salt is appealing .... I can't do it can I?
The Tetras can't tolarate it can they? And what about Pleco and snail?

Also I don't recall seeing anything about space requirements for Mollies. Or have I missed it?
 
As Dr. Monks points out in that article, the mineral hardness of the water is the critical issue, not the salt.  And definitely do not add salt to your aquarium, as this would cause issues for the other fish that are at the opposite end of the hardness issue but even more importantly will be negatively impacted by salt over time...I have known aquarists to literally burn the skin off of fish like pleco with adding salt.  I asked previously about your GH, this is what you need to know; this you can ascertain from the water authority, probably on their website.  I can promise you that if the water is soft and acidic, mollies will not last very long before they succumb to skin issues, shimmying and such.
 
As for space, mollies should have a tank at least 3 feet (90 cm) in length.  They are not small fish, with males attaining (if healthy) 8 cm (3.2 inches) and females 12 cm (4.8 inches).  Water quality is crucial for the health of mollies; they are completely intolerant of any form of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, high nitrate).
 
Others have correctly mentioned a mainly vegetarian diet.  The veggie flakes like Omega One's are good, along with fresh veggies like those mentioned here.
 
Byron.
 
Maxine-R said:
I hope my Mollies will be ok. I know they could do with more space but its just not possible for me to give them that at the moment. I only have two Mollies. I love them dearly and they are my favourites in the tank (i know I shouldn have favourites but I do ) so i m hoping that if i keep my water quality good and feed them correctly that they will be ok.
 
They can live healthy lives in an environment that it too small. They just won't reach their full potential and won't live as long. I'm not being critical, as I am guilty of keeping fish in environments that are less than ideal. I like to get young fish, grow them out and trade them in for more young and, if I'm lucky, some supplies.
 
Hi everyone.

Just thought I'd give an update.

The eggs have indeed turned out to be snail's. And I am glad I sectioned them off as the breeding trap is now crawling with them.

In addition, I have put lettuce, cucumber and corgette in my tank in the hopes the fish would take to it so that I could add this once a week to help with the Vegi part of their diet.
None of the fish (guppy tetra molly pleco) have shown any interest at all. Not at all. In all cases i have practically removed the veg in the same state i put it in.

Am I doing something wrong?

Is it odd that none of them at all have shown any interest?

Would it be possible to blend these items. Making them into a paste.
Would the fish prefer that?
 
 
""As Dr. Monks points out in that article, the mineral hardness of the water is the critical issue, not the salt.    I can promise you that if the water is soft and acidic, mollies will not last very long before they succumb to skin issues, shimmying and such.""



Here is info copied over regarding my water. I have no idea what any of this means. Which fish is this good for and which fish is this bad for?


Analysis Typical value

Hardness Level Slightly Hard
Hardness Clark 10.04
Hardness French 14.34
Hardness German 8.03
Aluminium 7.25
Chlorine 0.40
Coliform bacteria 0
Colour 0.69
Conductivity 359.00
E.coli bacteria 0
Fluoride 0.29
Iron 21.00
Manganese 3.73
Nitrate 9.68
Odour 0
Pesticides 0
pH 7.82
Sodium 24.19
Taste 0
Plumbing Metals
Copper 0.05
Lead 0.80
Nickel 3.89


 
 
Maxine-R said:
 
""As Dr. Monks points out in that article, the mineral hardness of the water is the critical issue, not the salt.    I can promise you that if the water is soft and acidic, mollies will not last very long before they succumb to skin issues, shimmying and such.""



Here is info copied over regarding my water. I have no idea what any of this means. Which fish is this good for and which fish is this bad for?


Analysis Typical value

Hardness Level Slightly Hard
Hardness Clark 10.04
Hardness French 14.34
Hardness German 8.03
Aluminium 7.25
Chlorine 0.40
Coliform bacteria 0
Colour 0.69
Conductivity 359.00
E.coli bacteria 0
Fluoride 0.29
Iron 21.00
Manganese 3.73
Nitrate 9.68
Odour 0
Pesticides 0
pH 7.82
Sodium 24.19
Taste 0
Plumbing Metals
Copper 0.05
Lead 0.80
Nickel 3.89


 
 
 
The parameters I've highlighted in red are the ones to look at.
 
Hardness comes in several units; the ones used in fishkeeping are German degrees and ppm. The hardness is quite low for mollies. But it is fine for the tetras.
 
 
Rather than lettuce, I would try a slice of courgette (ie zucchini) weighted down with something (I use an old teaspoon). Blanch it in a bit of water in the microwave for a few seconds. If you don't eat courgette yourself, just slice one and freeze the slices till you want to feed the fish again.
 
Ok. So it states that the German hardness is 8.03. What level would be classed as suitable for the mollies?
Would there be anything I can do to raise it a bit to a level that would be suitable for the mollies while still keeping it at a suitable level for tetras and guppies?
 
After looking through my water test history I have noticed that my PH has dropped.

Originally testing showed a PH of 7.2
However over that past few months it has dropped. I haven't had a 7.2 reading for a while now.
My PH seems to be lingering between 6.2 and 6.7.
It hasn't been a sudden drop. It has slowly decreased over a few weeks.
Could there be any reason for this?
I'd be happier with a PH reading of 7.2
 
Lack of buffering capacity in the water - low kH value.
Adding 'acidic' elements to the tank, Wood (tannic acid), nitrates (nitric acid), etc.
 
Any kind of wood that would be leaching tannins into the water...  Mopani, driftwood, manzanita, etc.
 
To respond to your questions, first on the veggie food...give the fish time to ascertain this is actually food.  Many fish take a while to discover vegetable matter is good (considering how they tend to devour it in time, they must find it good).  My foray into these foods met with little success.  Essjay has given good advice on the blanching.
 
Second the GH...I agree with essjay that this is a bit low for mollies long-term.  A range of 15 to 30 dGH is preferred [I'll return to this in a moment].  So now that we know what you have as your source water, you should make the decision as to the fish species that will be more "at home" in what you have and stay with those.  This makes life much easier for you as it certainly does for the fish, as water changes (and there will likely be "emergencies" when major water changes may be essential) are much more straight-forward.  And water parameters will be more stable than they might if you started adjusting parameters.  Your pH is lowering, which is natural [more on this too momentarily], so this also means mollies will have a very difficult time.  Obviously most soft-water fish will be ideally suited to your water, or conversely your water is ideally suited to soft water fish.  Tetras, hatchetfishes, pencilfishes, most catfish, rasbora, gourami, danios, barbs, loaches...the options are almost endless.
 
To the mollies...if you are determined to have harder water fish, you will need to adjust your water parameters.  This is easier when raising GH and pH than the opposite.  The best method is to use a substrate sand composed of crushed coral and aragonite, or similar; these are calcareous, and slowly dissolve calcium and magnesium into the water, increasing GH, KH and pH.  With suitable fish you really don`t need to fuss over how high these go.  I kept mollies and even rift lake cichlids for several years in tanks with such a substrate, with my near-zero GH very soft water.  But recognize that this limits your tankmate fish to those also preferring this type of water.  If you do want to go down this road, several of us can expand upon the basics I`ve outlined.
 
As for the pH...this is primarily decided by the GH and KH of the water.  The KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) acts as a buffer to prevent the pH from fluctuating.  The higher the KH, the more resistant the pH will remain to changes.  The KH is not given in the water stats you posted, so I will have to guess that it is probably on the low end, given the GH at 8 dGH.  The GH and KH are closely connected, though it is possible to have one high and one low, relatively, but generally they correspond fairly closely.  So we can assume that is the case here.  This means that extraneous factors can influence the pH.  Adding calcium as in coral, shells, limestone, marble, etc. would increase the pH, while adding organic substances like wood, leaves, peat will decrease the pH.  But, the rate of this raising or falling is governed by the buffering capacity of the water, the KH.  And GH and KH does not change much in an aquarium, unless they are being specifically targeted such as with calcareous substrates I mentioned earlier.  The fact that your pH seems to lower from 7.2 to the mid 6 range over a few weeks also suggests my thinking of the KH is correct.  So the pH is not being bound as it were, and is free to follow nature.
 
And this brings me to the second pH issue.  Thge presence of organic material like wood, dried leaves, etc. will as JD said tend to lower the pH (when not prevented by a high KH).  As well, in any aquarium, the accumulation of organics (fish waste, uneaten fish food, dead plant leaves, etc) adds acid to the water.  This affects the pH, and it will tend to lower.  Here again the KH is the buffer.  When the KH is high, the pH is prevented from lowering.  When the KH is low, there is nothing to stop the pH from lowering due to the accumulating organics.  This is not a bad thing in most cases.  But should it become extreme, it can be.  
 
I`m not going to bog this down with more detail as it isn`t necessary yet; but it is important for you to understand that your source water chemistry has a significant effect on the natural processes in the aquarium, and should you want to change the water chemistry, the initial parameters of the source water must first be addressed.  This is why it often gets dangerous when aquarists start adding chemicals to raise or lower the pH, and they end up with fluctuating pH which is far worse on the fish and can be deadly.  Natural means are the safest and easiest ways to adjust parameters.
 
But provided you remain with soft water fish, this should not ever be a concern.  For one thing, the regular weekly partial water change works to stabilize the acids and the pH will tend to find its level and stay there.  Provided you don`t over-stock the tank, or over-feed the fish, and continue with the water changes, all will be fine.
 
Thank you. I found that last comment very informative.

Will my mollies be ok if the water stays at its current PH?

Or should I go ahead with the above information to raise the PH slightly to make them more comfortable?

Is it going to be possible for me to find a nice balance in my PH to keep all tank tenants (guppy molly tetra pleco) relatively happy?
 
Personally I would re home the Live bearers, keep the tetras and add a few more to keep them happy. I have looked into this playing with the PH and so on and found it is NOT worth it. 
 
I am on this keep fish that can live in the water that comes out of your tap thing,  with only some Easy-Life fluid filter medium — English. OR Seachem. Prime And nothing else.
 
Like I said that's just my opinion.
 
Will my mollies be ok if the water stays at its current PH?
 
 
No, they will not, and that I will even go so far as to say is guaranteed.  However, understand that it is the GH being soft that is also equally significant to the mollies, as this is causing them a great deal of trouble physiologically.  These fish simply cannot maintain their normal internal body functions with so little mineral in the water.  The pH being acidic is only compounding the problem.  But the fish will be in trouble from either the low GH or low pH, if it were possible to raise one but not the other.
 
Or should I go ahead with the above information to raise the PH slightly to make them more comfortable?
 
 
The problem with this is that you are then making life more difficult for the other fish in the same tank.  I'll comment more below.
 
Is it going to be possible for me to find a nice balance in my PH to keep all tank tenants (guppy molly tetra pleco) relatively happy?
 
 
No, in my view.  This will take some explaining so you better understand my reasoning, and I will conclude with the matter of fish adapting, which is what you are hinting at.
 
Every freshwater fish species on this planet has evolved over thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, of years to function in a very specific environment--which for our purposes here refers to everything from water parameters, to the physical aspects of the watercourse, to other species.  Fish are rather unique among vertebrates in this respect, because of their aquatic existence.  The internal process that all vertebrate animals use to maintain their health and life (all aspects of "living") is called the physiological homeostasis, or physical equilibrium.  Biologists define homeostasis as the tendency of an organism or a cell to regulate its internal conditions, usually by a system of feedback controls, so as to stabilize health and functioning, regardless of the outside changing conditions.  The fish's aquatic environment means that four very important  body functions of the homeostasis are closely associated with processes in the gills: gas exchange, hydromineral (osmoregulation) control, acid-base balance [pH], and nitrogenous waste excretion [ammonia].  These processes are possible because of the close proximity of the blood flowing through the gills to the surrounding water, as well as the differences in the chemical composition of these two fluids.  This means the fish has a much greater dependency upon its environment than all other animals, and every time that environment changes beyond what the fish has evolved to function in, the fish suffers stress.
 
I won't go into the ramifications now, but will should you ask.  Suffice it to say that stress is the cause of 95% of all fish disease, because stress [as defined by Biology Online] is "the sum of the biological reactions to any adverse stimulus--physical, mental or emotional, internal or external--that tends to disturb the organism's homeostasis; should these compensating reactions be inadequate or inappropriate, they may lead to disorders."  So forcing a fish to "live" in an environment that is different from that for which it has evolved means the fish is continually having to compensate, and this takes considerable energy at the very least, but more often results in a weakening of the fish's physiology to such an extent that it finally succumbs either to disease or death.  One author compares it to driving a car uphill; it takes far more energy (gas) to maintain the same speed than it does on level ground.  Eventually, the fish gives out, because it has no other option.
 
Briefly on the adaptibility of fish.  Some seem to have a greater capacity to get around these problems than others, at least short-term.  But one should not assume this means they overcome them, because they just cannot.  So the molly that needs minerals like calcium and magnesium from the water in order to keep its homeostasis functioning properly, will not manage in soft water, and similarly the acidity as opposed to a basic (above 7) pH is causing further stress with respect to the acid-base balance.  A fish must regulate the pH of its blood to be roughly the same as the water passing over the gills...you can see how this is going to impact things when that blood then starts feeding the fish's cells and organs.  Eventually everything just breaks down.
 
So with that understanding, to your last question...finding a suitable middle ground is next to impossible.  While the fish may seem to "adapt" initially, internally things are going on than cannot sustain this on a permanent basis.  But having said that, there is some overlap obviously, but I must always ask, at what real cost to the fish?  The fact that soft water fish will not live their full life expectancy in hard water is pretty clear proof that they cannot really "adapt" as some would have us believe, and there is at some point going to be a cost.
 
Byron.
 
Wow. Ok. there's a lot of information there to process.

I understand more about what it means for a fish to be "stressed" and I now also understand why a fish may just "Give out".

I have had the Molly pair for a couple of months now and do not recall seeing what I would call "signs of stress" ... in fact I thought they were ok with them mating and her now being pregnant. I just assumed they were happy if they felt comfortable mating. They are the most energetic fish in the tank and wonderful to watch.
I put some corgette in the tank earlier ... whilst trying to remove it because it had becomed wedged in and the mollies couldn't get at it .. they actually came and started eating it from my hand ... it was amazing


However I now realise that they may still be "stressed".

thank you for providing me with this information in such a way that has not been too difficult to take in whilst giving me some real insight.

I will have to have a serious think about my fish now.
Especially my Mollies who I love dearly.
 

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