Dying plants ..

[Brendanpat]

Thanks. Having looked at the link, the Sunny is probably the best. If one had two, one Sunny and one Plant would likely be good. But the plant on its own is to me a tad too "cool" if it is the only light. So-called "plant" light traditionally has a rather goulish purplish colour hue, which may or may not help the plants but certainly affects the colour rendition of everything in the tank. And this light is or was (in the fluorescent tubes) always significantly weaker than the "daylight" 6500K. This is partly due to the lower green light, which while it does not drive photosynthesis it has been shown to have a positive impact on plant growth when it is added to the red and blue (as in the Sunny).

I have the sunny bulb aswell .it came with the tank . Should I rig it up aswell then do you think ?

 

[Byron]

Yes it's the plant version I got especially for that tank .it didn't come with it .I'm not sure of the Kelvin rating . My water gh is 120ppm . The algae on them other plants has been building very slowly over nearly a year . If they were growing I think it wouldn't be there really ?

The link gave the Kelvin of the "Plant" LED as 8000K which is for me too much blue and insufficient red, something the 6500K "Sunny" rectifies. So that would be my suggestion for the light. The GH is OK, not an issue there.

Algae will appear in any healthy aquarium, we cannot prevent it. But, we want to keep it under control. And with plants this means the light and nutrients are in sync for the specific plants (they have differing needs depending upon species, and numbers) so algae is thwarted. As soon as the balance is out, be it too much light, not enough light, too much fertilizer/nutrients or not enough, etc,, the plants struggle and algae takes advantage because it is not anywhere as fussy over the light. If the intensity is OK, and the spectrum is OK, then the duration can be played with, still in balance with the available nutrients.

Sometimes it is just a matter of tweaking the light period until it achieves the goal. I reduced my tank light period to 7 hours before I got black brush algae in two tanks under control. Then I found it increased in the summer due to the additional light intensity/duration from daylight, so I covered the windows (in a fish room this is easy to do) and that solved that. For four years after, no more BBA.

EDIT. Saw your latest post...if you can replace the Plant with the Sunny, that may do it. Given the algae issue starting, I would not want to be adding more intensity especially when it is blue light which does encourage BBA, I had this in one tank with a 10,000K tube alongside a 6500K tube. Removed the 10000K and replaced it with a second 6500K, end of BBA in that tank.

 

[Brendanpat]

Ok ,so I have put the my sunny bulb in .still a bit confused as to why the plant bulb isn't suitable for growing plants on it's own. Also moved it into the front section of the lid which is allowing alot more light down past my floating plants . It's a lot brighter now . Also reduced my timer from 8 to 7 hours a day . How does this sound ? Is it a good idea to have the light shining down directly past my floating plants ? Algae go mad ?

 

[Byron]

Ok ,so I have put the my sunny bulb in .still a bit confused as to why the plant bulb isn't suitable for growing plants on it's own. Also moved it into the front section of the lid which is allowing alot more light down past my floating plants . It's a lot brighter now . Also reduced my timer from 8 to 7 hours a day . How does this sound ? Is it a good idea to have the light shining down directly past my floating plants ? Algae go mad ?

You have answered your own question as to why the "Plant" light is less suitable...it is less intense light. The high level of red, blue and especially green in a 6500K light is superior (when it comes to growing plants) to the largely-blue light of an 8000K.

Scientifically-controlled studies have shown that plant growth improves when green light is added to red and blue. Diana Walstad in her book hypothesized that this was likely due to two things, the brighter light from the green, and the 6500K light being closer to natural sunlight which is high in these three colours and particularly green--look at all the green around us, that is green light reflected off the surfaces.

Leave the 7 hours for a few weeks and see what changes. With the better light and shorter duration, I would not expect algae to increase, and that is what you look for. We cannot get rid of what algae is there, but we should be able to prevent it from increasing. [Talking the "problem" algae here, BBA and such; common algae is going to occur in any aquarium but it is not "problem."]

 

[Brendanpat]

You have answered your own question as to why the "Plant" light is less suitable...it is less intense light. The high level of red, blue and especially green in a 6500K light is superior (when it comes to growing plants) to the largely-blue light of an 8000K.

Scientifically-controlled studies have shown that plant growth improves when green light is added to red and blue. Diana Walstad in her book hypothesized that this was likely due to two things, the brighter light from the green, and the 6500K light being closer to natural sunlight which is high in these three colours and particularly green--look at all the green around us, that is green light reflected off the surfaces.

Leave the 7 hours for a few weeks and see what changes. With the better light and shorter duration, I would not expect algae to increase, and that is what you look for. We cannot get rid of what algae is there, but we should be able to prevent it from increasing. [Talking the "problem" algae here, BBA and such; common algae is going to occur in any aquarium but it is not "problem."]

Ok thanks for your help . I'll keep a close eye on it and see how it grows.

 

[Corypower]

Ok thanks for your help . I'll keep a close eye on it and see how it grows.

Amazon sword is known to need tons of feeding,root tabs etc,I would suggest getting some anubias or java fern they would be way easier

 

[Brendanpat]

Ok thanks ,I'll look into them .The easier the better because I dont get a lot of free time for it at the moment

 

[Byron]

Ok thanks ,I'll look into them .The easier the better because I dont get a lot of free time for it at the moment

I would stay with the plants you have. The light change will probably resolve the issue. Swords will thrive with a good comprehensive substrate tab, I use Flourish Tabs with one next to the plant's crown replaced every 3 months. Even with my zero GH water, my swords are doing very well, and I have moderate light.

 

[Brendanpat]

Thanks . Yes I'm going to leave it for a few weeks now to see how they do . Possible add java fern and remove the ones with algae then . I like the idea of feeding from the water column instead of adding to many root tabs .My floating plants have always thrived with the seachem flourish

 

[Byron]

Thanks . Yes I'm going to leave it for a few weeks now to see how they do . Possible add java fern and remove the ones with algae then . I like the idea of feeding from the water column instead of adding to many root tabs .My floating plants have always thrived with the seachem flourish

The substrate tabs and liquid fertilizer are two different things in how effective they are. When it comes to swords, one Flourish Tab every 3 months will make a huge difference that liquid alone cannot match. I would not dispense with the liquid however, as other plants need this. But the tabs do benefit swords.

 

[Brendanpat]

I used the tnc plugs the last time ,2 months ago . Its says on the packet they last up to 6 months. Is that right ?and can you overdo it on root tabs ?

 

[Byron]

I used the tnc plugs the last time ,2 months ago . Its says on the packet they last up to 6 months. Is that right ?and can you overdo it on root tabs ?

I was going to say, probably OK, but decided to look them up and glad I did. The TCN Lite is a good liquid, but I cannot so endorse the substrate plugs.

Nitrogen is 15% and that is (1) useless, and (2) possibly even detrimental to plants. Aquarium plants and certainly swords assimilate their nitrogen through the leaves and in the form of ammonia/ammonium. So they are not taking up nitrogen from the roots, and they certainly do not take up nitrate unless ammonia/ammonium is insufficient (this is unlikely to be the case in a tank with fish and natural decomposition of organics).

I have used the Flourish Tabs for over ten years now, and can highly recommend them for large substrate-rooted plants like swords. Another benefit of these is they do not release nutrients into the upper water column. The TNC may be the same, they don't say, but probably not.

 

[Brendanpat]

Yes it says on the packet ,only released on demand and not into the water column. I was looking up the flourish tabs . I think I'll order a packet of them . Hopefully with the light and all I'll soon see some growth .

 

[BluewaterBoof]

I’m gonna jump in here and note that Flourish tabs are mainly micronutrients. Swords use them but adding Flourish tabs is not the direct cause for better growth. That’s like attributing a child’s growth to the Flintstones multivitamins they are taking each morning. Without adequate macros (nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium) a plant will not grow in a healthy manner no matter how many micros you add to the tank, just like a person will starve or become sickly if they are not consuming enough protein, fat, and carbohydrates even if taking tons of vitamins and supplements.

The light intensity isn’t the issue here. Light is only the driving force for the growth. The common analogy is the light is your gas pedal and the nutrients are the gasoline. Low light = slow, high light = fast. With adequate nutrients/gas, the vehicle runs fine regardless of how quickly you want to accelerate, but if you try racing it without enough fuel you’re going to have a bad time. Adding more light to the tank without providing adequate fuel for the plants is going to make your plants struggle even more. Keep the light source the same, increase your nutrients. Keep photoperiod down. Your plants will not die off from having less intense light and/or a shorter light period. They will become sickly and die off from lack of macronutrients (nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium). Remove the floaters from the tank. They are fast-growing because they are right next to the light source and are able to absorb the CO2 directly from the air, so they are sucking up what nutrients you have in the tank and starving your other plants.

 

[Byron]

I will all but guarantee improved plant growth if my suggestions are followed. I have seen this too often in my 30 years of low-tech planted tanks. I have zero GH/KH water, which of course means no calcium or magnesium. I do not add these aside from the fertilizers I use. I have lush growth from my large swords using Flourish Tabs and Flourish Comprehensive Supplement. I used to use Equilbrium (plus the liquid) to up the macros, but after a marine biologist questioned me as to the impact on fish, I stopped, and went to using the Flourish Tabs replaced every 3 months. The swords are still thriving, and that was 7 or 8 years ago.

The light was an issue here, it is not adequate and this is largely the spectrum. Removing the beneficial floating plants is not the answer. I know I consider fish first, plants second, and the floating plants definitely make the fishes' lives easier. But they should not impact the lower plants if the light is adequate, and with sufficient fertilizer/nutrients.

I will just post some photos of my tanks over the past 10 or so years, the swords do not look like they are starving or failing to me. I have heavy floating plants, zero GH, and used Flourish Tabs and Comprehensive liquid.