chibi
Fish Herder
I have a tank with 3 dwarf puffers. I recently was given a small flounder for the tank, however I hear they need salt. How much salt can I put in the tank without hurting the dwarf puffers? 
Dwarf Puffers And Salt
- Thread starter chibi
- Start date
Orbit887
Fish Fanatic
Dwarf puffers are strictly freshwater fish and will not tolorate salt in the water, so don't be tempted!
andywg
Bored into leaving
It depends on the flounder. Some species of flounder are entirely FW, so it might not be necessary to add any salt.
With regards to how much salt a DP can tolerate, I am not sure. I am fairly sure these are secondary FW fish, meaning they have descended from marine fish in the past and as such are likely to have some redundant ability to osmoregulate in brackish water.
I would expect a DP to tolerate water with a specific gravity of 1.003 and possibly up to 1.005. Whether one could consider the fish to ever be thriving in such conditions I am unsure.
The best thing to do first is to get a clear photo fo the flounder, particularly the tail region. Then someone like fella or nmonks can have a pop at identification and from there you wil know what sort of waters your fish prefer.
With regards to how much salt a DP can tolerate, I am not sure. I am fairly sure these are secondary FW fish, meaning they have descended from marine fish in the past and as such are likely to have some redundant ability to osmoregulate in brackish water.
I would expect a DP to tolerate water with a specific gravity of 1.003 and possibly up to 1.005. Whether one could consider the fish to ever be thriving in such conditions I am unsure.
The best thing to do first is to get a clear photo fo the flounder, particularly the tail region. Then someone like fella or nmonks can have a pop at identification and from there you wil know what sort of waters your fish prefer.
If you can get a picture of the underside of the flounder that would be helpful too.
As for adding salt to your DP's tank, yes, I'm sure a DP could tolerate salt at a low level, I doubt they would tolerate a flounder. The eyes would be the first part to be eaten I'm sure. I had success keeping a flounder with an SAP, but when I kept it with a red eye species, it didn't last so long.
As for adding salt to your DP's tank, yes, I'm sure a DP could tolerate salt at a low level, I doubt they would tolerate a flounder. The eyes would be the first part to be eaten I'm sure. I had success keeping a flounder with an SAP, but when I kept it with a red eye species, it didn't last so long.
Feral123
Fish Crazy
if the yhave salt in the tank dp life's spans will decrease dramatically and they'll be sick most of the time. so if your flounder is a totally fw fish then itll be ok, but if he is a brackish one then you may want to move him to a different tank.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
What's the evidence for this?
The idea salt somehow kills freshwater fish at low levels isn't very scientific. Even goldfish will live at around 30% seawater. Many, many freshwater fish live in brackish waters around 10-25% seawater. Salt isn't a poison and fish aren't allergic to it. If they die at low salinities, it's because they can't adjust their physiology to match the new osmotic pressure, and effectively dehydrate.
As anyone who's read my posts here knows, I'm dead against the "just add salt" approach to fishkeeping, and I'm absolutely in favour of creating an environment that closely matches that which the fish comes from. So I'm not going to advocate adding salt for the sake of a dwarf puffer because of some therapeutic quality salt is meant to have.
But puffers are secondary freshwater fish and they can be expected a priori to have a physiologically high tolerance for salt. Many "freshwater" puffers occur in brackish waters in at least parts of their range, the SAP, the Fahaka puffer, and Tetraodon cutcutia for example. The figure-8 puffer is unambiguously a freshwater fish in the wild, but does at least as well, and apparently better, in brackish water aquaria.
I'd be extremely surprised if any puffer was so salt sensitive that at SG 1.003 or 1.005 they had noticeably lower lifespans than otherwise. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see some evidence to back this up first. Otherwise, I'd predict that all puffers have at least some capacity to adapt to saline conditions.
Cheers, Neale
The idea salt somehow kills freshwater fish at low levels isn't very scientific. Even goldfish will live at around 30% seawater. Many, many freshwater fish live in brackish waters around 10-25% seawater. Salt isn't a poison and fish aren't allergic to it. If they die at low salinities, it's because they can't adjust their physiology to match the new osmotic pressure, and effectively dehydrate.
As anyone who's read my posts here knows, I'm dead against the "just add salt" approach to fishkeeping, and I'm absolutely in favour of creating an environment that closely matches that which the fish comes from. So I'm not going to advocate adding salt for the sake of a dwarf puffer because of some therapeutic quality salt is meant to have.
But puffers are secondary freshwater fish and they can be expected a priori to have a physiologically high tolerance for salt. Many "freshwater" puffers occur in brackish waters in at least parts of their range, the SAP, the Fahaka puffer, and Tetraodon cutcutia for example. The figure-8 puffer is unambiguously a freshwater fish in the wild, but does at least as well, and apparently better, in brackish water aquaria.
I'd be extremely surprised if any puffer was so salt sensitive that at SG 1.003 or 1.005 they had noticeably lower lifespans than otherwise. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see some evidence to back this up first. Otherwise, I'd predict that all puffers have at least some capacity to adapt to saline conditions.
Cheers, Neale
neale, most puffers are slat water, but dwarf puffers are known fresh water fish, it 'may' not harm them, but as they have been kept in captivity for so long in freshwater and im guessing that the topic starter has them in freshwater, it may not be beneficial to the fish to suddenly introduce salt to his tank
chibi
Fish Herder
So in order to keep both my puffers and flounder happy, how much salt should I add? 1 tsp per 2 gallons? I'll try to find my flounder and take a picture
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
treelo -- I agree; as I say, I'm a 100% against the use of salt in freshwater aquaria. But I'd be interested to hear some scientific evidence to back up the claim that low salinities harm freshwater puffers. Puffers are just plain adaptable (there are any number of marine puffers that can live in freshwater, for example).
chibi -- To keep a flounder you need MARINE salt mix, not TONIC/AQUARIUM salt. Let me make this crystal clear. Also, in terms of adding salt, "teaspoon per gallon" measurements don't work for inescapable reasons of science so forget about that idea. You need to use a hydrometer. A basic ones costs around £5. For a flounder, kept IN ITS OWN aquarium away from the puffer you are aiming for a specific gravity of SG 1.005. This will be fine for both freshwater and brackish water species. Once you've identified the flounder, you can adjust up or down as required. Almost all the flounders sold in the US are the *subtropical* brackish/marine species Trinectes maculatus. In the UK, the variety is broader, though brackish/marine species of Brachirus seem to predominate.
There's a summary of these fishes in my Brackish FAQ at the link below. Fella and others have kept these fish, so have a read through old forum postings for more.
Cheers, Neale
chibi -- To keep a flounder you need MARINE salt mix, not TONIC/AQUARIUM salt. Let me make this crystal clear. Also, in terms of adding salt, "teaspoon per gallon" measurements don't work for inescapable reasons of science so forget about that idea. You need to use a hydrometer. A basic ones costs around £5. For a flounder, kept IN ITS OWN aquarium away from the puffer you are aiming for a specific gravity of SG 1.005. This will be fine for both freshwater and brackish water species. Once you've identified the flounder, you can adjust up or down as required. Almost all the flounders sold in the US are the *subtropical* brackish/marine species Trinectes maculatus. In the UK, the variety is broader, though brackish/marine species of Brachirus seem to predominate.
There's a summary of these fishes in my Brackish FAQ at the link below. Fella and others have kept these fish, so have a read through old forum postings for more.
Cheers, Neale
chibi
Fish Herder
Thanks! I made a thread for my flounder to get help on identifying it:
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=203818
By the way... what exactly is your icon? I always look at it and can never see anything...
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=203818By the way... what exactly is your icon? I always look at it and can never see anything...
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