Donya's Pico Experiment
- Thread starter Donya
- Start date
OP
OP
Well, sort of yes and no. Recently dead hermits don't look like molts, but if it's long-dead it may be scavenged down to looking about the same. All that you should see on a molt is the front half of the animal (the hard parts), possibley the pleopod legs, and then a bunch of whispy stuff that is the cover for the soft body. A hermit that has JUST died and fallen out of the shell will have it's soft body still in-tact, although scavengers will usually go for that part first.
OP
OP
This is probably going to be a bit of a textwall...sorry! 
After a bunch of bothering about at the LFS earlier in the week flipping over more hermits and watching them stretch out and turn over, I am fairly certain I have either a small male or another gender-undecided individual that will hopefully stay male given the presence of a female. If this one thwarts my gender guess later on, I will probably move it to another tank and try the guessing game again. Those who know my hermit history can probably tell where this is headed.
The new arrival is on the left and is about half the size of the female.
While it still appears that this species can live in fairly dense populations in a tank without violence, they are certainly moody little things. Those two are happily next to each other in that photo above, but when the new guy first went in, the female wouldn't sit on the same side of the tank. Instead, she puffed herself up into a strange posture sitting on top of the plastic plants (how she got up there is a mystery - first time I've seen it happen) or at the opposite corner of the tank. After ~2 days of that, yesterday was full of periodic bouts of the female charging over, sniffing the newcomer, and then running away again. This morning they're all buddy-buddy and you wouldn't know any of the other behavior had ever happened.
Anyway, this bring me to some other things I've been planning in the background. I'm holding out hopes to see these Ciliopagurus strigatus spawn using my tests with other species as a model, but over time I've also come to the conclusion that hermit crabs can't really be bred and raised in the same tank due to the special needs of the larvae. I recently missed one opportunity when my Clibanarius digueti spawned in my 20g, since although the environment made them happy enough to breed, everything in the tank would eat the larvae. I had no place to put the larvae if I fished them out, and they were gone before I could come up with anything suitable. So, I've started a 1g bowl with some macro that I'm keeping ready and relatively unpopulated with the idea that I can move larvae in there fast the next time this happens. There are a few problems I'm facing though predator-wise:
- Amphipods
- Smaller Isopods
- Various worms
If what I've read on bumblebee snails is correct, I can run a bunch of them through the target bowl and be sure that there are no other worms hanging around. I could probably keep them in with added food to keep everything cycled while waiting for another spawning event from one of my hermit tanks. However, the isopods and amphipods are still aproblem. Amphipods took out my C. vittatus larvae after they turned into little hermits, and I've obeserved isopods going after the much smaller larvae from the C. digueti when they settled on surfaces. Ideally, I'd like some way to make sure that the populations are either knocked down or eliminated from that tank without drying everything out and starting over, since I risk re-introducing them.
One recommendatation I got to handle this was to get some type of fish that would eat both amphipods and isopods (my engineer goby eats amphipods, but isopods are too small for him) and rotate either the rock or the fish in and out to ensure that the populations are always knocked back enough to not pose a threat. Rotating the rock seemed more plausible due to the size of the tanks I'm working with, although this is where my fish knowledge starts failing. Scooter blennies were one of the options suggested, but I have nothing larger than a nano and am doubtle that I would be able to rotate enough rocks from my other tanks to keep one fed. Thoughts/ideas? Is there some obvious miracle solution that I'm missing?
After a bunch of bothering about at the LFS earlier in the week flipping over more hermits and watching them stretch out and turn over, I am fairly certain I have either a small male or another gender-undecided individual that will hopefully stay male given the presence of a female. If this one thwarts my gender guess later on, I will probably move it to another tank and try the guessing game again. Those who know my hermit history can probably tell where this is headed.
The new arrival is on the left and is about half the size of the female.
While it still appears that this species can live in fairly dense populations in a tank without violence, they are certainly moody little things. Those two are happily next to each other in that photo above, but when the new guy first went in, the female wouldn't sit on the same side of the tank. Instead, she puffed herself up into a strange posture sitting on top of the plastic plants (how she got up there is a mystery - first time I've seen it happen) or at the opposite corner of the tank. After ~2 days of that, yesterday was full of periodic bouts of the female charging over, sniffing the newcomer, and then running away again. This morning they're all buddy-buddy and you wouldn't know any of the other behavior had ever happened.
Anyway, this bring me to some other things I've been planning in the background. I'm holding out hopes to see these Ciliopagurus strigatus spawn using my tests with other species as a model, but over time I've also come to the conclusion that hermit crabs can't really be bred and raised in the same tank due to the special needs of the larvae. I recently missed one opportunity when my Clibanarius digueti spawned in my 20g, since although the environment made them happy enough to breed, everything in the tank would eat the larvae. I had no place to put the larvae if I fished them out, and they were gone before I could come up with anything suitable. So, I've started a 1g bowl with some macro that I'm keeping ready and relatively unpopulated with the idea that I can move larvae in there fast the next time this happens. There are a few problems I'm facing though predator-wise:
- Amphipods
- Smaller Isopods
- Various worms
If what I've read on bumblebee snails is correct, I can run a bunch of them through the target bowl and be sure that there are no other worms hanging around. I could probably keep them in with added food to keep everything cycled while waiting for another spawning event from one of my hermit tanks. However, the isopods and amphipods are still aproblem. Amphipods took out my C. vittatus larvae after they turned into little hermits, and I've obeserved isopods going after the much smaller larvae from the C. digueti when they settled on surfaces. Ideally, I'd like some way to make sure that the populations are either knocked down or eliminated from that tank without drying everything out and starting over, since I risk re-introducing them.
One recommendatation I got to handle this was to get some type of fish that would eat both amphipods and isopods (my engineer goby eats amphipods, but isopods are too small for him) and rotate either the rock or the fish in and out to ensure that the populations are always knocked back enough to not pose a threat. Rotating the rock seemed more plausible due to the size of the tanks I'm working with, although this is where my fish knowledge starts failing. Scooter blennies were one of the options suggested, but I have nothing larger than a nano and am doubtle that I would be able to rotate enough rocks from my other tanks to keep one fed. Thoughts/ideas? Is there some obvious miracle solution that I'm missing?
Hawkins
Fish Herder
These guys are so much more interesting than I first thought.. thanks for imparting some knowledge!
OP
OP
Seems I'll need to get some kind of small shrimp or something to clean up after the C. strigatus (a CUC needed for a CUC? Pretty coomon in my tanks 
). They've been throwing a lot of fine silty stuff into the water column and it's coating the macro. I'm having a hard time dusting it off without damaging the macro, and I'm concerned that if it builds up it will block out light. I keep fw ghost shrimp for plant-cleaning purposes in a silty tank with java moss, so I'm hoping I can nab a small sw equivalents to do the same thing for the macro.
Also, interesting stuff in hermit crab land. The female initiated shell knocking with the male, aperture to aperture with no apparent aggressive intent. Right after that there was a small explosion of hermit crab chatter, so I can finally say I've heard hermits talking.
Sounded kind of like running a fingernail over the prickly side of velcro. The only reason I was able to hear this is because the tank runs so quietly. I now wish I had a small, submersible mic now to listen in on my other hermits.
). They've been throwing a lot of fine silty stuff into the water column and it's coating the macro. I'm having a hard time dusting it off without damaging the macro, and I'm concerned that if it builds up it will block out light. I keep fw ghost shrimp for plant-cleaning purposes in a silty tank with java moss, so I'm hoping I can nab a small sw equivalents to do the same thing for the macro.Also, interesting stuff in hermit crab land. The female initiated shell knocking with the male, aperture to aperture with no apparent aggressive intent. Right after that there was a small explosion of hermit crab chatter, so I can finally say I've heard hermits talking.
Sounded kind of like running a fingernail over the prickly side of velcro. The only reason I was able to hear this is because the tank runs so quietly. I now wish I had a small, submersible mic now to listen in on my other hermits.
seffieuk
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure!
OMG 
hermits 'chatter' how cool 
hermits 'chatter' how cool
OP
OP
Land hermit crabs are known for "chirping," although it's usually a defensive gesture. I have read some debate about how they make the sounds and whether the vibrations produced are detectable by other crabs. Went digging on youtube today to see if I could listen to some examples, since I don't recall hearing anything from the land hermit crabs I kept years and years ago:
http
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWgDGHUvPQ0
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU-bq2t15DI
The vocalizations from my C. strigatus were somewhat different with a wider range of sounds (although it could be that terrestrial hermits have a bigger range and it just isn't on youtube). Unfortunately, I'll probably be waiting quite a while before I hear any more of that or see more shell knocking. They've just been following each other around munching in silence since then.
http
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWgDGHUvPQ0http
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU-bq2t15DIThe vocalizations from my C. strigatus were somewhat different with a wider range of sounds (although it could be that terrestrial hermits have a bigger range and it just isn't on youtube). Unfortunately, I'll probably be waiting quite a while before I hear any more of that or see more shell knocking. They've just been following each other around munching in silence since then.
OP
OP
Well, the Nerites will be going OUT later today when I do a water change. They'll be headed for my mainly gastropod tank that has a few Clibanarius digueti (I was able to keep some digueti in a mostly Nerite tank once before, so should be safe). The female Ciliopagurus hermit is getting a little too enthusiastic about repeatedly popping the Nerites off of the glass and sticking a claw inside looking for a snack. She's had no success, but as she grows she'll be more of a risk with that. The unidentified whelk and the bumblebee snails seem safe so far, so I'm not sure why the Nerites attracted more attention. Still, so much for the hypothesis that this species of hermit is safe with globose snails that aren't potential homes.
They'll be headed for my mainly gastropod tank that has a few Clibanarius digueti (I was able to keep some digueti in a mostly Nerite tank once before, so should be safe). The female Ciliopagurus hermit is getting a little too enthusiastic about repeatedly popping the Nerites off of the glass and sticking a claw inside looking for a snack. She's had no success, but as she grows she'll be more of a risk with that. The unidentified whelk and the bumblebee snails seem safe so far, so I'm not sure why the Nerites attracted more attention. Still, so much for the hypothesis that this species of hermit is safe with globose snails that aren't potential homes.
OP
OP
GWAH. My hermit gender assumptions may have failed a second time. The presumed "male" just molted, showing proportionally very small and not-so-hairy pleopods along with goniopores that would classify it as an intersex individual based on a couple of papers I've looked at (although neither paper addresses the Ciliopagurus genus unfortunately). I guess I'll just have to wait for additional molts on both individuals to see if any changes happen.
OP
OP
In case anyone thinks of doing something similar with the same equipment I'm using: definitly do NOT use the prepackaged filter cartridges as a quick/lazy way to run carbon. I thought I'd go ahead and swap one in these past few days since I had a spare that came with the system. However, pretty much like what I was worried about when I first set the tank up, the darned things really can take the surface aggition down dangerously low (particularly given that there's macro). All snails went straight for the top after a day of decreased flow, so I imagine the hermits weren't too thrilled either. The cartridges could probably be adapted to work reasonably well without inhibiting flow (probably by chopping off the top 3rd), since the problem really seems to be that they're just a bit too big. As-is though, not so great.
On a side note, this is clearly what plastic plants are for:
On a side note, this is clearly what plastic plants are for:
OP
OP
Agh...less-than-happy update unfortunately. 
Stock is back down to 3 critters: both hermits and that strange little whelk.
The bumblebee snails were never quite right after the low surface aggitation event earlier in the week, and I only realized yesterday why: looks like they were chewed on. They continued to act strangely slugish after water circulation and aggitation went back to normal, which was pretty odd since they were very active and good eaters prior to that. My best guess currently is that the lowered O2 must've hit the bumblebees harder than it did the other whelk, who seemed to actually perk up a bit in the following couple of days. The munch marks on the bumblebees are round-ish and some go rather far up the body, which looks more like the work of a whelk mouth than hermit nippers. I don't see a way the hermits could physically inflict damage that far into the shell on a live, retracted snail, and the tank is so small I can't see that any other problem animals would be lurking around. By elimination, that pretty much leaves the whelk again as the most likely culprit.
At any rate, even after moving the affected snails quickly to a safe tank once I saw the marks, only one of them shows much interest in moving, so recovery is looking slim. I guess I get to have another go at re-IDing mr. meanie whelk since I was pretty sure he was in the Nassariidae family prior to adding any other snails to the tank. I guess either not all Nassariids are nice, or I screwed up that ID pretty badly somehow.
There's also another strange event to the last few days: the carbon I took out today (which went in with a DIY media bag just after the filter cartridge trouble) smelled strongly like spoiled milk. In my years of fw and sw tank keeping, I've never removed carbon that smelled of anything except damp soil. It was just the carbon too, not the media bag or any other things in the tank. Water stats have checked out consistently during and since the low-O2 day (NH4/NO2=0ppm, NO3=0-5ppm, pH=8.2) so I know the smell wasn't from a recycle, but I'm still puzzled. If anyone has observed spoiled milk-smelling carbon before and knows what causes it, do share! 
Stock is back down to 3 critters: both hermits and that strange little whelk. The bumblebee snails were never quite right after the low surface aggitation event earlier in the week, and I only realized yesterday why: looks like they were chewed on. They continued to act strangely slugish after water circulation and aggitation went back to normal, which was pretty odd since they were very active and good eaters prior to that. My best guess currently is that the lowered O2 must've hit the bumblebees harder than it did the other whelk, who seemed to actually perk up a bit in the following couple of days. The munch marks on the bumblebees are round-ish and some go rather far up the body, which looks more like the work of a whelk mouth than hermit nippers. I don't see a way the hermits could physically inflict damage that far into the shell on a live, retracted snail, and the tank is so small I can't see that any other problem animals would be lurking around. By elimination, that pretty much leaves the whelk again as the most likely culprit.
At any rate, even after moving the affected snails quickly to a safe tank once I saw the marks, only one of them shows much interest in moving, so recovery is looking slim. I guess I get to have another go at re-IDing mr. meanie whelk since I was pretty sure he was in the Nassariidae family prior to adding any other snails to the tank. I guess either not all Nassariids are nice, or I screwed up that ID pretty badly somehow.
There's also another strange event to the last few days: the carbon I took out today (which went in with a DIY media bag just after the filter cartridge trouble) smelled strongly like spoiled milk.
In my years of fw and sw tank keeping, I've never removed carbon that smelled of anything except damp soil. It was just the carbon too, not the media bag or any other things in the tank. Water stats have checked out consistently during and since the low-O2 day (NH4/NO2=0ppm, NO3=0-5ppm, pH=8.2) so I know the smell wasn't from a recycle, but I'm still puzzled. If anyone has observed spoiled milk-smelling carbon before and knows what causes it, do share!
seffieuk
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure!
Donya I love reading your posts, although must admit I sometimes have to read them twice 
those latin names!
Keep um coming
Seffie x
those latin names!Keep um coming
Seffie x
Excellent thread. Lots of interesting detail on a very cool little project.
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