Donya's 55-Gallon

[gregswimm]

Supplements are useful, especially when you are using RO. You are bound to run out of some nute eventually. I would however make sure you test for everything, there are iron test kits , hell you may even go as far as running diy CO2. Just don't over do it like I did and crash your PH . (my recipe was 1 cup of water + 3 cups of sugar, microwave for 2 min, stir well, add to a Gatorade bottle with 3/4 full of cool water, add a table spoon of yeast... profit)

 

[Donya]

Whoaaaa....not in a marine tank surely? They're already loaded with carbonates, so a CO2 injector could screw up a lot more than just pH. KH would go bananas and probably would eventually start to effect other params too like the Ca/Mg/Sr levels.

 

[Donya]

I wish I knew what was going on here.

I scrubbed the rest of the tank as best I could with him on it and he was still there. He's not eating or destroying it, he's just got a monster grip on the thing...and he's not stuck - he can move all legs, but will only do so one at a time so as not to lose the mega-grip. I would like my scrubber back, so I've moved the situation to a bucket and am playing the waiting game, but even so it's been half an hour already in the bucket with no change.

 

[Donya]

Well I lost the waiting game and put the scrubber + hermit combination back in the tank because it was getting chilly in the room, but I eventually got the scrubber back anyway. My urchins slowly pushed him off lol. Bulldozing is useful sometimes. So, that was around 3.5 hours of scrubber-hugging before being defeated by urchins. Why do I always end up with the weird ones...

 

[Donya]

Somebody sapped 3dKH worth of carbonates out of this tank overnight. If you think about it in terms of how much powdered buffer would be needed to make up the difference in a tank this size, it's really quite a lot. The tank was at 12dKH yesterday evening (that's it's "happy" level) and was at 9dKH late this morning. It wasn't ambient CO2 since it was just this tank. No idea who the culprit was yet but somewhere there will be a nice big measurable chunk of new skeleton/shell. It's not the first time I've seen this happen, and whenever it has happened it's always been associated with animal growth. When it's a coral though I can never tell for a week or so who it was.

I have wondered about a reactor to deal with these kinds of sudden saps without having to test so often, but have never pursued it and have always just done a daily dosing routine. But...3dKH is kind of a lot. It will now take me a while to get it back up in a safe/stable way, and longer obviously if something is continuing to use it up like crazy. So...if anyone has seen a good HOTB reactor that actually works, do share.

 

[Donya]

I was running low on my existing amino acid supplement, which was used mainly for a different tank that struggles to keep nutrients up. So, I tried something new as a replacement and then tried a little of it on this tank too after seeing the effect. Red Sea Reef Energy A & B: apparently it's morning coffee for soft corals. I have never seen softies perk up so fast in response to an additive. This stuff is also so wildly fluorescent green that it looks like you're putting something radioactive in your tank. Happy corals + mad scientist factor = good. I don't know how regularly I'll be using the stuff on this tank (since it doesn't exactly struggle for nutrients), but the coral response it gets is pretty interesting and was worth noting.

 

[gregswimm]

Any guess what those brown things are? It's on a coral skeleton, but I can't tell if it's just algae growing in the grooves or if there is actually a polyp that looks like that. Hopefully it's just algae, since it's heading towards being consumed by Anthelia creep.

Looking through your post to see your species of gorg u have I stumbled uppon this blast from the past and remembering seeing some thread about it - http/www.nano-reef.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t82073.html

By the way, what species of gorg do you have?

 

[Donya]

I've been forgetting to update this thing again.

Bad things:
- BTA is toasting the snot out of things...not surprising given that it is dinner plate sized when fully open. Hazards of nems!
- Almost killed off my zoas by what I may have been switching phosphate removers briefly (it's the only thing that correlates and the correlation is perfect so far). Needless to say I switched back. Zoas seem to be improving slowly.
- Elegance coral was declining, couldn't figure out why...then I pulled out what appears to have been a parasitic snail that had bored down between the skeleton and tissue and was eating it from the bottom up! Nasty little thing. The coral is recovering.

Good things:
- Tree corals coming out ma eaaaaaarrrrssssss!
- Moved a pair of striped cardinals over to this tank from QT (I forget what I IDed them as...will have to look that up again).
- The new fish love my tank so much they've decided to make babies. After a day of funny dances, the male showed up holding eggs last night. I've read that the males usually take a few batches before they can get one all the way to hatching, so this one will probably not work out, but it will be interesting to watch develop.

Looking through your post to see your species of gorg u have I stumbled uppon this blast from the past and remembering seeing some thread about it -

Ah that looks like the ones! Good to finally have an ID on those. Unfortunately they were toast not long after that photo was taken.

By the way, what species of gorg do you have?

I don't have any gorgs so far. I was considering them a while back, but I chickened out and never went for any.

 

[Donya]

Apogon margaritophorus - those are the striped cardinals I've got.

 

[gregswimm]

What was wrong with your zoa? The phosphate removers were killing them or you added phosphate removers to save them?

What is that thing? I thought it was a gorg lol, or is it a Dendronephthya? Maybe you would like to trade a frag for something I have?

 

[Donya]

What was wrong with your zoa? The phosphate removers were killing them or you added phosphate removers to save them?

I'm pretty sure it was the new phosphate remover that nuked them. I had been using phosphate remover pads, which are kind of a lightweight method of removal since they have relatively little chemical media in them compared to pelleted forms. I then thought I'd be clever and switched to a pelleted one that you put in little media bags - then I could leave it in for a month instead of changing it weekly. Within a couple of days, zoas were permanently closed and zoa mat seemed to get melted away slowly (no hint of predators - I have been on late night vigils for it!). It started slowly and then snoballed until I paniced and finally took the new media out in desperation. I was troubleshooting other things prior to that, since I didn't think it could possibly be the phos remover. The chemical used in the pads and the pellets should be the same as far as I can tell! However, I know that Al-based phos removers CAN be problematic with some softies. I've read that it's to do with fine particles of the media getting into the water, so perhaps that's what was happening. I had the phos remover in both cases sandwiched between mechanical filtration pads to try to avoid that, but it could be that the pads are coated with stuff that is just coarser and the pellets are releasing bits that are so fine they sneak right through. That is the best guess I've got for the moment, and the type of damage matches some of what I've read for bad reactions to Al-based media. Anyway, I've switched back to the pads and within a couple days of that everybody was at least open again, and I'm starting to see some color return to some. Damage was extensive though...many polyps are shrunken and bleached a bit. Probably the moral of this is I shouldn't have tried to fix something that wasn't broken just for not wanting to have to make the extra effort to cut the pads to shape.

What is that thing? I thought it was a gorg lol, or is it a Dendronephthya?

I honestly don't know for sure. I've seen it sold as Dendronephthya, Nephthea, and even some other weird things like Sinularia. ORA sells it as Nephthea which makes me lean towards that one a bit. It likes light, but it seems to also need a reasonable amount of nutrients in the water as well or it will just flop and shrivel even when other softies are ok. It's also rather aggressive; it's one of few things in my tank that takes no notice of the BTA (I even just found a new colony has been growing UNDER the BTA today...so I guess it doesn't need much light!) and makes just about anything else it rubs against pretty unhappy.

Maybe you would like to trade a frag for something I have?

I'm a little uneasy about shipping at this time of year between the recent storms, start of the holiday rush, and low temps - and I've also never shipped or received corals by mail before so I have no idea what I'm doing in that department. Give me a bit of time though, since the frags also need a bit of work. Half of them need Aips zapped off the edges of the plugs and the other half don't have obvious "foot" sections developed yet (which is important, since they are much less firmly attached before that develops; seems to take ~3 weeks for that to form).

 

[gregswimm]

What is that thing? I thought it was a gorg lol, or is it a Dendronephthya?

I honestly don't know for sure. I've seen it sold as Dendronephthya, Nephthea, and even some other weird things like Sinularia. ORA sells it as Nephthea which makes me lean towards that one a bit. It likes light, but it seems to also need a reasonable amount of nutrients in the water as well or it will just flop and shrivel even when other softies are ok. It's also rather aggressive; it's one of few things in my tank that takes no notice of the BTA (I even just found a new colony has been growing UNDER the BTA today...so I guess it doesn't need much light!) and makes just about anything else it rubs against pretty unhappy.

It is most likely in the family Nephtheidae (although paralcyoniidae is entirely possible). I'm quite sure it is azooxanthellate. You say it is growing in a cave-of-sorts which supports this. From what I have read, even the NPS appreciate some light.

Maybe you would like to trade a frag for something I have?

I'm a little uneasy about shipping at this time of year between the recent storms, start of the holiday rush, and low temps - and I've also never shipped or received corals by mail before so I have no idea what I'm doing in that department. Give me a bit of time though, since the frags also need a bit of work. Half of them need Aips zapped off the edges of the plugs and the other half don't have obvious "foot" sections developed yet (which is important, since they are much less firmly attached before that develops; seems to take ~3 weeks for that to form).

Gives me time to figure out how to ship corals lol.

 

[Donya]

Second time now that planning to go get a sea urchin of some sort has resulted in a flat tire...I'm starting to get suspicious lol. I was hoping to go looking for a longspine today for the cardinals, but so much for that.

I'm quite sure it is azooxanthellate.

Thing is though that it closes up completely at night - looks like a little ball of cauliflower. The other NPS I have get more active and open at night since it's a better feeding time.

 

[gregswimm]

Second time now that planning to go get a sea urchin of some sort has resulted in a flat tire...I'm starting to get suspicious lol. I was hoping to go looking for a longspine today for the cardinals, but so much for that.

I have always been a fan of the long spine. I have seen them in the gulf, they are kinda big lol. Aren't they a menace with regard to eating everything and being clumsy in general?

I'm quite sure it is azooxanthellate.

Thing is though that it closes up completely at night - looks like a little ball of cauliflower. The other NPS I have get more active and open at night since it's a better feeding time.

Well, tossing my hypothesis out the window lol. How far do the polyps retract? And you should try and get a close up of a polyp and Ill see what I can find in my school's database (they have a contract with loads of companies like springer, pubmed, etc. and even have some stuff from USF's DB).

 

[Donya]

Aren't they a menace with regard to eating everything and being clumsy in general?

The same has been said for most species of urchins commonly kept in the trade, including some of my rather good friends in this tank...

Tripneustes gratilla

Lytechinus variegatus

Mespilia globulus

And not to forget some of the residents of my "touch tank" tub...Eucidaris tribuloides, black urchins still unIDed with certainty (either Echinometra lucunter or Arbacia punctulata), and T. gratilla.

Urchins are like many of the Crustaceans I keep - often misunderstood, poorly documented, and not fed properly. Several of the species I have get slammed regularly by hobbyists, but it's almost always down to two things: bad IDs and/or people who don't have a clue about inverts (and unfortunately many don't want a clue either). When advising people about urchins I always have to tack on the clause of "well there are reports of individuals in all commonly kept species eating corals and other beneficial fauna..." but I wouldn't have 13 urchins right now (6 in the 55gal and 7 in the tub) if I didn't find them to be very predictable and manageable.

While there's always room for seeing a surprise with a species I haven't kept before, I hear the same good and bad things about Diadema species as I do about the ones in my 55gal. The main issues that stand out to me with Diadema species in an aquarium is the need for more open space than other "grazers" and more importantly the accidental sting factor, which is what has put me off so far. Echinothrix also gets sold as a "long spine" and might have more surprises; there are some interesting things I've heard about the feeding behavior of E. calamaris in aquaria as it grows (claims of being a voracious carnivore) that seem to directly contradict the result of a gut content study done on wild specimens (algae/kelp).

Well, tossing my hypothesis out the window lol. How far do the polyps retract? And you should try and get a close up of a polyp and Ill see what I can find in my school's database (they have a contract with loads of companies like springer, pubmed, etc. and even have some stuff from USF's DB).

Macro pics of that degree are not really possible; my camera is old enough that even a lot of cell phones these days perform better. There are plenty of pics on the web of exactly what I have in more detail than I can get, but no conclusive ID. Capnella is another genus being bandied around with some of the pics on the web. I'll see if I can find one of those that shows the polyps clearly.

Yale's got pretty endless library access too and it hasn't helped me much in the coral-ID department over time. If you've got a soft coral expert on hand then it might be worth trying to get a sample him/her at some point (or bothering ORA to see how they got theirs IDed if they had an expert), but short of that I don't hold out a lot of hope for certainty in this group of animals. Borneman even says the IDs are a pain and in the past I've read that IDs can be down to things like sclerite morphology, so it has seemed to me to be a rather poorly documented mess.

Speaking of Borneman...not sure why I wasn't noticing this pic before. Page 141 Lithophyton sp. - that could be a match. Too bad the pic isn't bigger.