Does anyone know how to disinfect a tank from Mycobacterium?

[JuliaAndFish co.]

Heeeelllppppp i might have an outbreak of fish TB in my 33 gallon, and i really don't want to tear the while thing down, as I'm not sure if it is infact TB. I have had several fish losses over a steady period of time. Does anyone know what to do? Can i save my babies and protect them from catching it? Do i have to tear down the whole tank, that has been my dream and largest object of pride?
The symptoms i have noticed are
• the sickness is very rapid and aggressive, one day they are fine another they are not eating and barely swimming, another day they are dead. Otherwise i have thought that something ate them, as they had dissappeared from the tank after being seemingly normal and healthy
•they seemed to have some sort if clamped fins prior to death
• they all had a sunken in stomach, which i assumed was some other disease and i treated them against it, to no avail
• nothing else really, all the other fish are swimming about fine and eating, they tend to drop one by one
I have done water changes, changed temperatures, added salt, treated the tank for bateria and fungi, changed the filters... (i have no other tank to put the fish in, i have some other fish in my spare quarantine)
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP AND EXPLAIN OR AT LEAST POSSIBLY HAVE ANYYHING I COULD DO TO HELP THE REST OF THE FISH

 

[JuliaAndFish co.]

On me as of now I have: Amikin, Pennicillin, esha 200, some "anti fungus and finrot"(i have no idea what is in it), metronidazole, fenbendazole, and methylene blue

 

[Uberhoust]

I will leave it to others to help with the diagnosis but if it is mycobacteriosis I believe you will have to start again after a full tank teardown and sterilization.

Just in case there is something else wrong you will get more informed responses if you put up the particulars of your tank water parameters, temperatures, filtration, fish, and some history (when new fish introduced etc). You might also post some photos of the fish themselves. I would be cautious of adding any treatments without knowing the issue, if the treatment is not appropriate for the fish's condition you can make the situation worst.

Also in a bind almost anything that can hold water can act as an aquarium. I got a bad case of ich a few years back, as a result I quarantine any new arrivals.

 

[GaryE]

If it's myco, it's there, and you can't kill it. None of the meds you have will do the slightest. It will survive sterilization (it has defences against bleach), but it rarely flares up as it's doing now. A lot of fish carry low key Myco, and it becomes a fact of life.

However, you might have another bacterial infection in action, in which case once it burns itself out, it won't persist. It's a heartbreaker when these things strike.

It's really hard to give a clear answer without seeing the fish, and it's not always easier when we can see them. Myco has so many symptoms like other bacterial infections. What you describe sounds fast for Myco, but Myco is at its most dangerous if fish die in the tank and are scavenged.

 

[fishorama]

Ugh, I hope it's something other than myco. Like GaryE said there's nothing that stops it & it's very hard to sterilize even an empty tank. I know in Canada you can't get the same meds that I can, but none of them will help if it's myco (TB), I know, I tried...

I had it only once that I'm pretty sure of, thank goodness I quarantined! I "won" some dwarf rainbowfish (larger rainbows can be prone to myco). I lost 1 fish after ~3 weeks, sunken belly & bent spine. Then after 3 more weeks another died. I asked my also very experienced friend if she thought it was myco too. She agreed & I euthanized the rest being very careful to keep myself safe too. Myco can "wall" itself off & it's hard to get through that layer & kill it effectively.

Then the big decision on how to sterilize the tank. I heavily bleached after removing the substrate but threw away the filter after since I knew I couldn't scrub every surface in it. Then I let it dry out & scrubbed with rubbing alcohol very thoroughly inside & out. I let it dry for many months. I ended up giving the tank to a club member that only wanted it to grow out plants. I just couldn't feel safe although I did do everything! I & others could think of.

Yes, pics & more info might help us help you. My fingers are crossed it's something else more treatable

 

[Magnum Man]

I think I had pretty good luck, running the tank empty of substrate, but filled the tank full, with about a 10% bleach water solution, and ran the empty of media hang on back filters, and air stones for several days... I was skeptical, so I bought a new 55 gallon tank, to change mine out, I've not seen it again, so the empty 55 gallon is sitting in reserve, until it rears it's ugly head again

 

[CassCats]

Drain it all, dry it all out really good and boil the heck out of anything that can be boiled. Filter media included.

But won't work if you've got fish, they'd have to be euthanized if you went that route.


Alternatively, that tank stays on total lock down. Nothing moved out of it to other tanks or other people. No sharing equipment (nets, Thermometer, water change hose, tweezers, etc). If it touches that tank it belongs to that tank.

But, myco isn't a fast killer, you may have another bacteria on your hands. Or even something else entirely. Do you have photos of the fish affected? Myco has pretty significant symptoms that are relatively "common" to mycobacteria more than other bacteria, though since we have no way to test these at home, we don't 100% know for certain what bacteria is, but if myco is suspected you should always be cautious and don't touch the water if you've got open wounds on your hands, even a paper cut or hang nail. Always always always wash your hands after dealing with the affected fish tank. Not all strains of mycobacteria in the hobby can spread to people, but a couple of them can and you don't know what it is without a microbiologist testing it. (You can also catch it in swimming pools )

But, i wouldn't jump on myco without seeing red flags for it. And even with red flags, it's not guaranteed.

 

[JuliaAndFish co.]

I have studied some more and it could also be a Hexamita infection, however if any more fish die i will do a necropsy. Fron what i have researched(mostly vetetinary websites) the hexamita reproduces very quickly and creates a massive infection in the fish rapidly. The symptoms of the fish that died fit the description quite well, but i shall continue to research. Either way I have metronidazole to treat the hexamita, so i could make some medivated food and test it on any fish that gets sick

 

[GaryE]

The necropsy is the way to go, if people have the skills.

I've become fatalistic about myco. I try to buy wild caughts when I can, but if I buy fish store fish, I assume they have it. So a fish that should live 10 years may get 3 or 4 years if it's carrying. There usually aren't huge breakouts with multiple deaths, although if a fish dies in the tank, the Myco floods out seeking a new host, and can overwhelm fish quickly.

It's a cryptic, always fatal slow disease. You can't eradicate it. I caught it (lesions on my hand) years ago, and it took a cocktail of 5 antibiotics for 6 months to cure it. That is a tough creature.

Let's hope it isn't the culprit here.

 

[Uberhoust]

If it is nontuberculous mycobacteria, NTM, then the following article from Tropical Fish Hobbyist seems the best source of information I could find. https://www.tfhmagazine.com/articles/freshwater/mycobacteriosis-the-stealth-disease213231. According to some it is treatable with antibiotics and according to others it is endemic meaning it is always in the environment and is opportunistic. Obviously the more that is in the environment the more likely a fish is to acquire an infection. According to the article the bacteria can benefit from excessive cleanliness and sterilization techniques because it is more resistant to these treatments, but not immune, and half measures can result in making an environment where competing bacteria are wiped out but the NTM continue to strive. That said the condition of the fish also influence their susceptibility to the bacteria, so some other negative event for the fish can result in an outbreak.

Overall it does appear like you can sterilize with bleach but you need a pretty strong concentration 500 ppm for 2hours for biofilms (haven't done the math to determine how much 5% bleach solution you would need for that). Alternatively, thoroughly cleaning the tank and hardscapes first then soaking them in a bleach solution should remove the bacteria, but I don't know what you would do with the substrate or the plants (they won't handle a 30 minute bleach dip). On the other hand if it is endemic then you may be better off ensuring the fish are healthy, ie at the right temp, right pH and hardness, and have appropriate environments. Additionally you might look to see if somehow you are unknowingly introducing the bacteria into the tank, consider looking at your syphon hoses, nets, buckets... these if not sterilized could be re-introducing the pathogen into the tank.

Good luck it, if it is a type of NTM, then it can be a challenge to treat or prevent. On last note is that the NTM bacteria are really a group not an individual species, and each behaves somewhat differently, a treatment may work with one but not the other making it even more difficult to treat.