Do Feeder Fish Lie Down?

[Ladic]

Today I bought 10 Rosey Red Minnows to feed my turtle, this is the first time I ever buy a feeder fish and the first time I will attempt to feed fish to my turtle.

So everything was fine, they seemed very energetic in the plastic bag, then I put em in this plastic dish tub while I cleaned the Turtle Swamp to put the fish in.

And after a while, they started to lie down, 1 by 1.

Some would like awake and start swimming again. But right now they are all lieing down in the bottom.

Are they sick? sleeping? dieing?

I want to be sure before I feed this to my turtles.

here are some pics

 

[*Fishkies*]

Extreme stress can cause fish to do this sometimes. Did you add water dechlorinater when you put them in that bucket?

 

[nmonks]

They are clearly either dying or at least stressed severely by oxygen deprivation or similar.

Why are you feeding feeder fish to a turtle? What species do you have? Most of the ones in the trade are more or less omnivorous, and one of the biggest problems with red-ear sliders for example is newbie keepers don't give them enough plant material.

Also, be sure and read something on Thiaminase. This enzyme is in minnows and goldfish, and is known to cause problems in reptiles. The studies I've read have involved snakes, but the physiology of a turtle is so similar I personally wouldn't risk it. As ever, if you HAVE to use feeders, the ONLY safe feeders and the ONLY responsible feeders are home-bred livebearers gut-loaded with algae for a week or two before use. Everything else is laziness, and as Yoda would doubtless say, Laziness leads to Mistakes, and Mistakes lead to Disease.

Cheers, Neale

 

[dixiedawn]

some of them look dead to me, did you treat the water before putting them in or did you just plonk them in tap water, or is that the water from the bag??? Personally i wouldn't feed them to your turtle

 

[Ladic]

I used tap water, right now, they are not moving at all.

Did I kill them?

I have red ear sliders. At another forum they told me they feed them this type of fish.

 

[dixiedawn]

if they're not moving at all and are belly up then chances are they're dead... wouldn't feed them to ya turtle, try again tomorrow and either leave them in the bag before giving them to your turtle or treat the tap water but don't leave them for long because they become stressed without oxygen and keel over! I don't know anything about turtles but hope you get it sorted out!

also, couldn'tyou get feeder fish for your turtle at maybe a bait shop that do live bait?? gotta be a little bit better than going to a LFS and picking up fish that have been in with all sorts of chemicals and meds, surely that won't be good for the turtle

 

[Ladic]

I just found out that the blue tub use to be used for washing clothes, could that be it?

They are not belly up, but lieing on their side.

 

[nmonks]

Is that the "Stupid Ideas Forum" or something? Go read a book about what red-ear sliders actually eat. Goldfish will not be mentioned except on the list of what to avoid. Too much Thiaminase and oil. Cause all kinds of problems.

In the wild they're opportunists, but they're so clumsy that they can't catch live fish. As they get older (and slower) they steadily become more herbivorous, feeding on water plants and general aquatic detritus.

In captivity they need much the same foods as goldfish: pellets, salad, Sushi Nori, earthworms. Gut-loaded crickets and mealworms can be good, in moderation, especially for getting calcium carbonate into them. Fruit and vegetables are CRITICAL for vitamins. Vitamin supplements are probably essential in real-world conditions. Constipation is EXTREMELY common with red-ears because people don't give them enough fibre. Again, vegetables are the key.

Cheers, Neale

I have red ear sliders. At another forum they told me they feed them this type of fish.

 

[dixiedawn]

could be if there's alot of soap residue in the tub.

Is that the "Stupid Ideas Forum" or something? Go read a book about what red-ear sliders actually eat. Goldfish will not be mentioned except on the list of what to avoid. Too much Thiaminase and oil. Cause all kinds of problems.

In the wild they're opportunists, but they're so clumsy that they can't catch live fish. As they get older (and slower) they steadily become more herbivorous, feeding on water plants and general aquatic detritus.

In captivity they need much the same foods as goldfish: pellets, salad, Sushi Nori, earthworms. Gut-loaded crickets and mealworms can be good, in moderation, especially for getting calcium carbonate into them. Fruit and vegetables are CRITICAL for vitamins. Vitamin supplements are probably essential in real-world conditions. Constipation is EXTREMELY common with red-ears because people don't give them enough fibre. Again, vegetables are the key.

Cheers, Neale

I have red ear sliders. At another forum they told me they feed them this type of fish.

This guy knows what he's talking about...........just googled it for a FAQ page and said basically same thing....

i'd drop the idea of feedin fish

 

[Ladic]

Is that the "Stupid Ideas Forum" or something? Go read a book about what red-ear sliders actually eat. Goldfish will not be mentioned except on the list of what to avoid. Too much Thiaminase and oil. Cause all kinds of problems.

In the wild they're opportunists, but they're so clumsy that they can't catch live fish. As they get older (and slower) they steadily become more herbivorous, feeding on water plants and general aquatic detritus.

In captivity they need much the same foods as goldfish: pellets, salad, Sushi Nori, earthworms. Gut-loaded crickets and mealworms can be good, in moderation, especially for getting calcium carbonate into them. Fruit and vegetables are CRITICAL for vitamins. Vitamin supplements are probably essential in real-world conditions. Constipation is EXTREMELY common with red-ears because people don't give them enough fibre. Again, vegetables are the key.

Cheers, Neale

I have red ear sliders. At another forum they told me they feed them this type of fish.

right here:


http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=52763

 

[Amunet]

They probably died due to you not dechlorinating the water before you put them into it.

 

[*Fishkies*]

They died because of no dechlorinater was used. Also there may have been soap residue in the bucket. I would not feed those to your turtles.

 

[nmonks]

right here:
http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=52763

No offence meant, but those people have no idea what they're talking about. Red-ear sliders are omnivores and certainly don't need feeder fish and likely don't benefit from their either. Fish have hardly any calcium in them or fibre, and anyone who's talking about red-ear sliders and doesn't mention either calcium or fibre basically is ignorant of the needs of this species.

There are some fish-eating turtles, things like alligator snappers and matamatas, but unless you're keeping them, you need to concentration on the vegetables and the calcium. Take a read of the Wikipedia article...

http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-eared_slider#Nutrition

Cheers, Neale

 

[KhaosInc]

I think your best bet would to be to go to the pet store tomorrow, and pick up some frozen 'turtle' cubes (I think one option is called 'aquatic turtle diet' and is available at almost any large pet store.). They are decent to use while you learn more about them. the mainstay of my turtles diet (right or wrong, they are health and active and have been for quite a while) is koi pellets and those frozen cubes, with earthworms every time I find them on my driveway (or get motivated and go catch some)

 

[nurglespuss]

Fish dying: due to chlorine, chloramine, fluorine, temperature schock, lack of aeration, stress.

Red-eyed terrapins: eat small fish in the wild, fair enough, but they are lazy animals and can be acclimatised to dead fish/commercial brands/home made foods. They also benefit from Elodea Densa as a natural fibre additive. One downside to feeding live foods is the aggression it breeds in terrapins, and that aggression can result in you getting injured during handling. Another downside is that diseases may be transfered from feeder fish to your terrapins, most notably Ich can cause a reaction in terrapins resulting in a form of conjunctavitus, eye infections and reptiles = very ill creature.

However, the most important thing to glean from this is:

Not everybody knows everything, most people assume they know something, this assumption is almost always flawed, being aggressive or derissive to someone who (in your eyes) has made a mistake is neither beneficial nore responsible. Forums are designed to allow people to communicate, this particular forum should be helping people and not scaring them away for making mistakes.

Best advice, purchase a new book on terrapins (or use your library) and experiment with foods that have a low level of mammal/bird protein. Although, dog food is excellent for occasional treats.