Do Betta fish really exhale pure oxygen?

[fancyfish]

OK. This is a brand new thread in re. to a situation at my local walmart. Right now it's day 6 of the bettas being kept on the fish department counter without airholes on their lids to allow for air exchange and acess to oxygen. I complained on Sunday to customer service (they said they'd get the situation taken cared of right away). I complained again to an off duty employee and she said she have the aquatics person called over to get the situation cared for. So now on Day 6 (Friday) and I see some of the same fish still in containers with no air holes.

So I go straight to the floor manager; told her about the situation and that I have been complaining about the negligent fish care I am seeing in the fish department . I told her it is immoral to keep a live animal without taking adequate care of it. That fish are suffering needlessly, when it'd only take a few minutes to ensure the bettas would get adequate access to the fresh air.

I then left the gravel I needed to buy unbought and stated I was going to go to Petco, because I won't buy any more from them until the situation is changed.

So I go to Petco; and they were doing everything right. Nice wide bowls with airholes and even a little info on the sides about Betta fish. The guy just got in a new about a 40 betta shipment and there were some beauties in it (honey colors, a couple butterflies, a mustard gas, a copper, crowntails, etc.) I tell the guy what was going on at the Walmart and he gave me a container and lid to show to walmart; and some of the care sheets on betttas. I even got to meet the manager and I told them how I liked that they were doing things the right way.

So on way home... stopped back at Walmart. Showed the manager the nice container. Gave her the care sheets. Then she called the pets person over; to talk with me about what I was seeing that I felt needed changing in regards to the bettas.

Now we learn there is a big problem. That pets manager flat out lied to the manager about the situation. Then the kicker; she uses a new argument (not the rice paddie/puddle argument to justify the small containers). This what she said.
"The bettas do not nee airholes in the containers because they breath out pure oxygen"

I asked her if she ever took biology in school in school. She said she did.

Well I told her I have taken biology in college,and from what I remember it is that in humans we breath in Oxygen and exhale CO2 (Carbon Dioxide). Many animals breathe in oxygen just like us and exhale CO2. I believe and would bet on it that no fish exhales pure O2 (oxygen). If the bettas did exhale pure O2 we could seal up a box full of water with no surface air and the fish would not suffocate. Frankly I wouldn't want to test her nonsensical theory.

I told her them both I could see that she wasn't listening to me or understanding what I am trying to explain to her.

Even the floor manager said to me after the pets gal left us that the only thing she knew that lets out (exhales, releases) oxygen is plants and trees (convert CO2 to O2).

Oh; and as the gal leaves the manager and I; she states the humane society comes in once a week and checks the fish out. (I knew that was a lie as I worked at the humane society for several years). Animal control doesn't have that kind of time to do weekly surveys of pet fish stores; they respond to complaints as they come in though. Any way she says she is going to call the humane society and ask if it is OK to keep the fish on a store shelf with no airholes for days. I told her go call the humane society, and I told her I also will call up the humane society and explain to them what I have been seeing since I used to work there.

Just finished the call to the Humane Society to let them know someone from Walmart might call them and ask if it is OK to keep fish that way. Frankly I doubt she will call as she flat out lied to the manager and myself about the conditions of the fish.

I started complaining 6 days ago, and they kept saying they would get it taken care of right away and haven't. No emails from Walmart HQ yet. I am still working on a letter to the CEO; and yes will CC the humane society and PETA.

But can someone help on this .... I need a picture and an explaination that shows respiration "cycle "by a betta... something that shows what is inhaled and what is exhaled. Because I am certain that Bettas don't exhale O2 (pure oxygen). So I can give this to the store manager. Preferably from a credible and recognized expert source.

A fish/marine biology expert or something. Need the science to demonstrate the fish manager doesn't know basic biology concepts needed to care for the fish properly. Meanwhile I will check my own textbooks here also... but I don't have any betta specific diagrams showing what they breathe and what they exhaled.

Thanks for any help that can be given; meanwhile I'll check out the LFS sheets.

"I still can't believe that a grown adult would believe an animal breathes out PURE OXYGEN". Yikes. Then states she has had bilology in school. Hmmm.

 

[BettasRFriends]

Hi. Here's what I've found. Hope it helps:

http/www.bettatalk.com/betta_anatomy.htm

The best one are:

http/www.bubblenest.net/anatomy.html

http/groups.msn.com/TheBettaObsession/bettaanatomy.msnw

 

[Dorkhedeos]

oh course they really breathe out pure oxygen, who didnt know that? and plants can also walk

 

[rdd1952]

Fancy, we had 2 pretty long threads in the Chit Chat forum about Walmart in general earlier this week. Also there is another member of this forum (who it turned out is a Walmart pet dept manager) who we met and corresponded with yesterday after she just happened to post about a new "fish of the month" program they were starting. Unfortunately, a couple of us were a little on the rude side until we learned a little more about her.

She said to ask the manager for a "letter to the president" form, fill it out and send it in. She stated that those were all handled and acted upon. Below are links to those 2 threads and her thread (the first one).

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=80174
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=79743&hl=
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=79825

It is a disaster how they treat their fish. I was appalled when i went in on Tuesday at their fish in general and also at their betta situation. I too ended up leaving without buying what I originally went in for. I also ended up going back after work and buying the last 2 bettas they had. Their cups were disgustingly filthy. I had to go elsewhere to buy a tank (they had them for less than what I ended up paying but I sure wasn't giving them any more money) for one of them as I didn't have anywhere to put him. They are both doing fine and one of them is the most gorgeous betta I have ever seen. I am trying to get good photos to post but being a newbie, I am having trouble getting good shots.

I wrote an email to Walmart from their website on Tuesday. I don't really expect a reply and will be surprised if I get one. I think everyone in here and also on another forum that I frequent is disgusted with Walmart. Hopefully, if we all talk to the managers at the store level and also send the letter to president forms off, something good will come of it. All we can do is complain and be persistent.

 

[GuppyDude]

manager dude is a moron, anyone who has passed 7th grade science can tell ya that all liveing thinkg with the exception of plants give off carbon based waste of some kind wether it be poo or gas (carbon dioxide)

 

[Shaydensmom]

I'm right there with you! I swa a whole bunch of Bettas kept at Wlamart San Angelo stacked up on shelfes in littel containers without Airholes, hardly any room and sometimes quite some waste in there- it makes my heart ache! But how can you possibly make them at Wlamart change this if there is no law that actually forces them to do so!!!!

 

[fancyfish]

Thanks for the suggestions and links.

I am glad I complained to the manager there; because I think she could see before her own eyes that something isn't right in the fish department. Her pets manager surely showed her lack of knowlege in regards to basic biology and fish care; and hopefully the manager will be digging around on the internet for information on the care of bettas. But after 6 days of trying to get the fish proper care; I wouldn't hold my breath.

I do believe the person in charge of the fish is the reason why when I complained on sunday about no airholes on the fish; nothing was done. Because I went to customer service and the rep said; I thought they took care of those fish already.
She incredioulsly believes she can keep fish that way becuase she believes that the fish exhale pure oxygen; despite the fact other stores have airholes on lids and care sheets that state the need for adequate filtration and access to the surface air. I also believe when I complained to an off work employee shopping in the pets section for dog food; that her immediate call to aquatics also resulted in no action taken.

The only fresh air these fish are getting during their stay at walmart here is the air that sneaks in when they are being fed or they getting medicated. Oh yea... now they are getting medicated (they are getting sick quickly, just as I told the customer service person on the first day I complained). Their numbers are down also since day 1.

The lady in charge of "caring" for those fish probably believes the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese, and other nonsense. They need a new fish manager that would know how to take care of fish properly; and has a background in science and management enough to handle the problems that come up while dealing in fish.

My walmart would be better off not selling fish really..... we have some nice local stores here that have knowlegeable people taking care of the fish. But I am afraid that they would rather keep the status quo then stop selling fish; so I hope for change of personal responsible for the fish. Even our petco is doing a good job. My Petco could improve on spotting diseases in bettas in the early stages; but in all considering the amount of bettas they handle they are worlds better than the walmart in my town. And the walmart in another town nearby does a better job than my closest walmart .

I still can't believe that woman stated as fact that fish exhale pure oxygen.

She couldn't have illustrated my point to her boss any better that the fish aren't getting cared for by knowlegeable staff.

 

[fancyfish]

I'm right there with you! I swa a whole bunch of Bettas kept at Wlamart San Angelo stacked up on shelfes in littel containers without Airholes, hardly any room and sometimes quite some waste in there- it makes my heart ache! But how can you possibly make them at Wlamart change this if there is no law that actually forces them to do so!!!!

Whenever you see something that is clearly neglect (like fish kept for days in containers with no holes for fresh air) ; complain to the manager, customer service, and any employee you might see in the area. If I had a camera phone I'd take a picture as evidence; pictures sometimes speak louder than words.

I got one of the letters to the CEO of Walmart forms. But I plan to write a real letter.

I don't know the laws as pertaining to fish... but the fish are being sold as pets in the pets dept. so perhaps pet cruelty laws might apply. I do know my huimane society will be watching them now. B)

If it is a clear case of abuse/neglect I believe that telling the manager how you feel about what you see when you see it can work; and by letting them know you find it objectionable so much you won't buy anything there until the situation is fixed.

The manager knows I will be watching the situation, and she knows that I don't believe her fish manager is doing a good job caring for the bettas. And the manager knows because I reminded her.... that there are probably other customers out there who find that the lids without airholes objectionable but didn't have the time or courage to speak up about it. She did thank me for telling her about my concerns re. the bettas.


Oh... if anyone wants to complain about any walmart store not caring for fish properly. Here is the Walmart President's and CEO snail addy.

It's on the form they give out because they say they want to know what you the customer of walmart thinks.... the addy is public/common knowlege and in the public domain. So I will share it since another person has mentioned her store also is using unholed lids on the betta containers for an extended period of time after arrival.

Addy to report problems with Wal-mart's pets to the president &CEO :

Mr. Lee Scott, President & CEO
Wal-Mart Stores, INC.
P.O. Box 116
Bentonville AR 72712-9956


8)

 

[Shaydensmom]

Fancy, rdd1952 gave you already great links- here he gave me some links to my question (thankyou rdd), there you can read inall of them how important fresh air is to them!Here is the link to my question, you'll fin dhis answer and links there!

Thanyou for the adress, I'll write there today! I guess this is the adress for the "Letter to the president" somebody mentioned!

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=80329

 

[turbotiber]

yeah don't forget to mention that betta's have a labyrinth (sp?) organ and that's why they're different from other fish!! Good for you!

 

[littlefishie]

Since you said marine biology expert, I'll try to help. I'm no expert, but I'm in the process of switching my major to marine biology, and I can tell you that they do not exhale oxygen.

Plants and trees do that through photosynthesis, but bettas take oxygen in from the surface air. They can't exhale oxygen if they inhale it as well. It's common sense.

 

[Shaydensmom]

Ok, I went back to Wamart today, and got me one of the Bettas, this time I looked closer and actually these had a Airhole (shaped like a cross) in the middle, also about 12 holes around the top of the lid in a circle. It also said on the lid how to feed them (is onece a day really enough?) But still, stacked like dead matierial in the shelfes, plus some of them had quite some waste in there- painful to see how those beautyful fish laid in their own crap. I couldn't help it, I "rescued" one wich I put in a two gallon tank and named him "Bob Marley"- and he loves his Ghost-Shrimps as Tank-Mates! At least one tiny little Happy End- I'll still write that letter!

 

[rdd1952]

Once a day is probably plenty for any fish. I think all of us overfeed our fish. We do feed all our fish, including our bettas, twice a day. In the betta tank, there difinitely isn't any food left laying around. Two of the bettas take the food off my finger. The other one hasn't gotten comfortable enough to do that yet. He does come to the surface as soon as I touch the water and wiggle my finger. I drop them right in front of him and he eats them. Nothing left to decompose. The lids you mentioned are exactly like the ones on the 2 cups I bought. And their water was also full of waste. I'm sure the water had not been changed in at least a week or two. Good for you for rescuing one and giving it a good home.

 

[Shaydensmom]

Thank you so much for all that Information! I tried to feed Bob Marley (I don't know why but some hwo that name suits him) he seems not finicky for now neither! He takes Hikary Gold, those timy balls and Tropical Fishfood Crisps- are the last ones ok for him or should I only feed him the Hikary Gold- or should I give him variety- means one day this the other this?

Do you have any idea, what I should feed my Ghost-Shrimps now? Bob Marley ist fast and eats every thing before it hits the ground, leaving nothing for my little guys. Any ideas? sincemy Tank is new there is no algea growing or somthing that would feed them! Sorry that I keep bothering you, but you seem to know a lot!

thank you!

 

[rdd1952]

I feed my shrimp Hikari Sinking Wafers. I generally lay them on a towel and cut them in half or quarters with a knife as a ghost shrimp sure doesn't need a whole wafer. They sink pretty quickly. If you drop them in at the same time you feed Bob Marley, they should get to the bottom to the shrimp.

As far as his diet, I would definitely vary it. Mine loves brine shrimp, daphnia and bloodworms. I have freeze dried bloodworms and the others are frozen. I also give the rozen ones to my tropicals so when I thaw a cube in a cup for them, I just put a little into the betta tanks with a spoon before I give the rest to them. One thing to remember with those foods, brine shrimp aren't very high in nutritional value so don't get stuck feeding him only that. Bloodworms on the other hand are very high in protein and not digested well so don't feed those too often either.