Diy... No More Water Changes!

[Wonderboy]

Thanks!

Do you plan on trying the idea?

In the future, when I find a perminent living area, I plan on building a tank into a wall or division. At that point I would love to include this feature into it, but for now, I'm moving around too much and will stick to manual water exchange.

~ Wonderboy!

 

[andywg]

Sounds like it might work all right, but let me see if I can follow what you are trying to do and why.

The float switch would be the exact same as you find in the back of a toilet. How often do you see those fail (personally, I have never seen one fail. I have seen some of the other stuff fail, but not the float switch).

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Of course they fail from time to time, have you never seen a toilet overflow working? That's because the float valve has failed.

1. I do not understand why you would want to do a 100% water change. For one it is not necessary. Two it is wasting water. Three it will cause more stress on the fish. Also you need to keep in mind, if for any reason your water company changes what they're doing to the water (say they double the amount of chlorine) you're filters might not be able to keep up and soon you have a huge problem on your hands (meaning you'll start having dead fish before you figure out what's going on). If you limit the amount of water coming into the tank, you might be able to catch major changes before a disaster. (that's not to say you couldn't have one even at 10% changes). I think at 100% per week you're going to spend too much money on the extra water without benefiting anything.

If you run it from RO, then the amount of chlorine is immaterial, as you have a filter to remove it. Just get an inline TDS moniter and you will catch anything before it goes wrong. Also, the more celan water the better.

I fail to see how a 20-30% water change a day (somewhere around 1-2% per hour) will be unduly stressful to the fish. Mine have no problems with a 40% once a week. It would be a constant flow. And after reading the results of experiments on other forums, you could run a system like this without any conditioner or RO once the filter colony is mature.

The main reasons why large water changes will cause problems is with a form of "old tank syndrome" where the stats of the water are materially different from the tap water. If you have a constant supply of freshwater then this will not happen.

I fail to see how a larger water change would prevent filters from coping, what do we always suggest when someone has a problem with the tank? Frequent (daily) water changes.

The best saltwater setups are ones with natural water being pumped in and back out on a constant nature with 100%+ changes per week. If you have to pay for the water then it will costs, but as I am on water rates I would not have to worry and would far rather have cleaner water. The solution to pollution is dillution.

2. I don't think I'm following your design intent. I think my plan is somewhat like what you're talking about, but instead of having a physical sump, I would have the incoming water coming from the filters (instead of from the sump pump) and the waste water (through an overflow box) would be connected to a sink drain (instead of returning to the sump).

I don't follow how you're going to get any water out of your system (if you add water you have to take away water or your tank will overflow). Can you do a drawing or describe it a little more?

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That is exactly what I described. An overflow to a chamber that is connected to the waste. As water is added, the wter level rises above the weir and then into the chamber tht is connected to the waste pipe.

Then, the only thing governing the levels would be the rate of supply of RO water. If the RO went mad and produced faster, there is no risk of the tank flooding (unless it goes mad and overpowers the drainage system, though 25mm can easily handle 2,000LPH).

You could either do it as a single tank, with the overflow to waste in the main tank, or do it with a sump with the overflow to waste in the sump tank and the water going into the sump. If you are determined to use float valves, then you could place them in the sump, and at a higher level have the overflow as a safety precaution.

Reef Central has a large number of stories of people who trusted float switches who now have very well soaked floors. If it can go wrong, plan for it to go wrong.

 

[raptorrex]

im very green at this, but wouldnt changing that much water every week be bad for the fish? i am aware that your calculations are based on the natural flow in a river, but surly that water you would put into the tank would be clean filtered water, the river water is not treated in this way, so though the water in a river is always changing it is not replaced by clean water but by more untreated water. would you not also be carriying away much of your benificial bactia?

 

[Tolak]

Actually, changing that much water is good. You are keeping nitrates low, while removing other waste. It's the way breeders keep overstocked tanks without any problems.

Little, if any benificial bacteria is in the water, it's mostly in the filter media.

 

[And_Hef]

I know in some areas there are water restrictions, and some areas have bad water conditions.

Personally, I don't see the need in my planted tank to change out all of the water every week. Now in a fish only tank or for breeding conditions, it probably wouldn't hurt at all but the plants need some of the trace elements found in the tap water.

I do not plan on using an RO/DI unit, as I don't feel it is necessary (again maybe for a fish only tank) plus the additional cost if you don't already have one.

I plan on using 3 inline filters (1 for sediment and 2 for chlorine) with a simple valve to control the incoming flow, and an overflow box to drain. I do plan on keeping the hang-on-the-tank filters in place so to help with the bacteria population.

To each their own.

 

[d3tained]

This will not replicate natural river flow.

So called "fresh water" will only enter a river when it rains or a fountain is born.It can be from every day to every 6 months depending on the region.

For example:

Take 1 mile of river and devide it into 2 sections, the start and the end.

Trough out the 1 mile stretch of river you have fish plants, dirt and all the other stuff aswell as nitrates.

Lets take 1 gallon of water and follow it down the river as it reaches section 2 it still have the nitrates and other stuff so infact the second section of river will not recieve "Clean" water.Its the same as the filters we all have in the tanks.The way a river stops its from becoming to consentrated is that ALL rivers runs to the sea and then also you normal "fresh water" dosage from rain ect..

So buy doing a water change every week or 2 or 3 you mimic rain or river running ito the sea.The reason for us doing it every few weeks is due to small space and amount of water.

This will work if you release about 20% freshwater per week into the tank and letting it overflow.

 

[TrueNoob]

this constant flow of water wouldnt be clean enough, and will ause the tank to keep recycling and have a bacteria and algae bloom

 

[andywg]

this constant flow of water wouldnt be clean enough, and will ause the tank to keep recycling and have a bacteria and algae bloom

What are you talking about? Why will clean water from the tap (or even better an RO unit as mentioned here) not be clean enough? How do you get cleaner water into your tank?

The bacteria that cycle the tank live in the filter media and on surfaces, not in the water. Re-cycling will not occur. In fact, if you have a high enough flow (probably greater than 100% per day) then you would never need to cycle as the nitrogenous waste will be flushed away before it can attain such concentrations that will affect fish.

As for a bacterial bloom? I would be grateful to see any scientific reason why a constant flow of fresh water would cause this to happen.

The notion of "aged water" being good for a tank has been proved wrong. As a result, provided the conditions do not fluctuate, there is no reason why a constant flow of fresh CLEAN water will cause detriment to the tank.

 

[samyboy]

i like this idea although i have a 15g so it would all be totally pointless

 

[And_Hef]

This will not replicate natural river flow.

So called "fresh water" will only enter a river when it rains or a fountain is born.It can be from every day to every 6 months depending on the region.

For example:

Take 1 mile of river and devide it into 2 sections, the start and the end.

Trough out the 1 mile stretch of river you have fish plants, dirt and all the other stuff aswell as nitrates.

Lets take 1 gallon of water and follow it down the river as it reaches section 2 it still have the nitrates and other stuff so infact the second section of river will not recieve "Clean" water.Its the same as the filters we all have in the tanks.The way a river stops its from becoming to consentrated is that ALL rivers runs to the sea and then also you normal "fresh water" dosage from rain ect..

So buy doing a water change every week or 2 or 3 you mimic rain or river running ito the sea.The reason for us doing it every few weeks is due to small space and amount of water.

This will work if you release about 20% freshwater per week into the tank and letting it overflow.

Unless you simulate the conditions of a natural spring, which has plants, fish, etc living in a constant flow of fresh clean water.

I think the main concerns are to remove the chlorine/chlorimate from the incoming water and have plenty of oxygen (for the fish), and maintain macro and micro elements for the plants.

Personally, I have water well and do not have to worry about much other than sand and low pH.