Disaster

[Edge]

EDIT: My wife has posted this in the Emergencies section too if that's OK, thanks

Hi Guys, I've had a disaster in my Malawi tank and I have no idea why. Yesterday evening I fed the fish as normal around 6:00pm and watched them for a while, everything was fine. Then when I next looked in around 8:00 most of the fish were just lying on the sand, with a few gasping at the surface. I tested the water and ammonia and Nitrite came out as 0, nitrate maybe a little high at 50ish. This morning all my Acei are dead, and the rest of the fish look pretty bad

This tank has been set up with no major problems for over a year, I changed the water and rearranged the rocks 2 weeks ago, and a few weeks before that I added 2 more yellow labs, taking the total number of fish to 14. Tank is 75 gallon.

I really have no clue what is wrong, it all just went instantly wrong. It's not as if I even did anything different. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[kj23502]

Wow! Sorry to hear about your loss

Did they have anything physically wrong...like sores... that you could see?

I'm sitting here trying to think of more things and I'm drawing a blank...baby just woke me up a few min ago....it's only 4 am here

 

[Edge]

The Acei showed no signs of illness at all, nothing. A few of the yellow labs had some dark patches on their face, but nothing on any of the other fish. I'll have to have a look when I get home.
I'll be so gutted if my whole tank dies, I love the fish I've got at the moment. Added to the fact I must have spent over £100 on them.
Stuff like this just makes me want to give up, i would be OK if I knew what caused it.
4am and still checking the forums though, that's real dedication

 

[Ferris]

Sounds like a lack of Oxygen, although i'm not sure why that would suddenly happen.

Do you have anything agitating the water's surface like a powerhead or large airstone?

If you haven't - get something really moving the surface - filter outlet should do if it's powerful enough. I have at least 1 powerhead in each of my tanks that specifically does this job, almost creating a wave effect.

The only problem i've ever has was when one gave out on me and i came home to find all the fish (including Plecs) gasping at the surface. No harm done though - i quickly setup a spare and in minutes everything was back to normal.

Oxygen deprivation is often overlooked and can easily cause fatalties.

 

[Edge]

We have an external filter and the output is breaking the water surface, it's always been fine, lots of ripples. Maybe I'll add something else just in case. I'm baffled. Thanks anyway

 

[kj23502]

4am and still checking the forums though, that's real dedication

There was a big storm rolling through and I came downstairs to check the radar. I also stopped by the forum

I don't really know what to tell you about your fish....I'm perplexed as well. Although, mbuna do need lots of oxygen in their water. I have a maxijet 1200 powerhead and 2 eheim pro II 2028's running in my tank. Sometimes I move around my powerhead to stirr up different areas in my tank, though. That way my filters suck up more crap. i don't have any catfish synos yet to eat things on the bottom (the other day I found a bloated ritz cracker in their thanks to my kids )

It's really hard for me to syphon junk off the bottom b/c my sand gets sucked up to no matter how hard I try not to

 

[darrel69]

Sorry to hear that...

I dont think this could be result of having high nitrates, but still.. having nitrates above 40ppm is not good i believe.

 

[Athena]

Oh gosh, what a disaster for you!

I was just wondering - what did you feed them on that evening? Could the food have been contaminated in any way, giving them some kind of food poisoning? Seems strange how they were fine at 6pm when you fed them then 2 hrs later they were all dying off.

Or had anyone sprayed anything in that room at all (e.g. fly killer, air freshener etc)

Sorry, you've probably already thought of all this - I'm just wracking my brains for ideas.

Athena

 

[darrel69]

Or had anyone sprayed anything in that room at all (e.g. fly killer, air freshener etc)

Good point.. and easily done to poison fish like that.

 

[UBigBobby]

Sorry for the loss.

Could be a few things. First off it sounds like a Heat/O2 problem. What was the temp in the tank when you found them all struggling and then dead? As the temperature warms up with Summer upon us there is less O2 in the water. Warmer warter holds less O2 than cold water, and Mbuna's like lots of O2. Could have also been a malfunctioning heater. Sometimes lower quality ones decide to break, and unfortunately they usually don't break by just turning off. often they get stuck on and will keep warming the water until kingdom come.

I don't think any disease would affect them that rapidly...you'd have seen it coming.

Also as someone suggested, if any chemicals found their way into the tank that would cause rapid death.

 

[Edge]

Thanks for the replies everyone, like I said in the original post only a few of the fish are gasping, most are lying at the bottom or on their sides. Anyway I think we've figured out what has happened. My wife posted this over in the emergencies section, and dthoffsett kindly pointed us towards one of her earlier threads where she had a similar problem. The symptoms described were as below:

The third type of infection produced by Aeromonas is by no means the least. This form is often the most virulent (potent) and can be rapidly fatal. This insidious form does not produce any noticeable external ulcers. The most notable feature is a behavioral change in which the infected fish generally become listless and lethargic. Some fish may lose color or appear darker. The fish do not feed, frequently seem off balance and may sink to the bottom laying on their sides. The course of the disease is rapid, and by the time the behavioral changes are noticed, the entire population of a tank may succumb, sometimes in a day or so. This is an internal infection, with the bacteria being found in the kidneys and blood of these fish. The bacteria produce potent toxins that account for the severity of the disease.

This describes pretty much exactly what happened, and dthoffsett described some fish gasping at the surface and some sinking to the bottom and moving awkwardly.
I guess it was caused by the 2 new yellow labs we added a few weeks back, a massive reason for us to find space to squeeze a quarantine tank (that's our job for this weekend).

We now only have 2 fish left, I'm guessing they won't last long. What do we do next? Do we have to completely empty the tank and leave it dry for a while? Don't want to start re-stocking to find the disease is still in there. (sorry this was a bit of an essay)

 

[kj23502]

When you're ready to restart, you can disinfect the tank if you want to. I don't know anything about this disease, but you can research it further. Some don't need a host to survive and others do. I'm guessing it's probably something may linger around until it gets cleaned out??

What I've heard of on this forum is cleaning with vinegar and then rinsing out. One of the mods says he cleans all of his equipment with a bleach solution of 1 part of bleach to 20 parts of water. This will work fine as long you rinse really good when you're done. I've used the same method to clean algea off of fake plastic plants. I just rinsed really well and put them back in the tank and everything was fine

If it's a disease that can hang around, you'll need to clean your filters too so you will have to do a fishless cycle when you get ready to start again.

This sounds teadious, but wouldn't you rather clean everything than have to go through this all over again. A QT tank can be something as simple as a 10 gallon w/a sponge filter in it. Keep the filter hidden behind the large rocks in your main tank. When you need to QT get out the 10 gallon and rinse it if it's dusty or has been sitting for awhile. Then fill it w/your main tanks water and put the sponge filter in it. (by leaving the sponge in the main tank it will already have bacteria on it and will be ready to do the job in the QT). Put a few pieces of PVC pipe in it or a couple fairly large rocks in it. Basically something the fish can hide behind or in if they want to. It helps them feel secure and chances are they'll be less stressed b/c they'll have some cover. QT tanks don't even need any substrate and this makes siphoning poop and junk from the bottom a lot easier too! I leave my fish in QT for 4 weeks. Some do 2 weeks if they know their source really well and have never had any problems. I always do 4 weeks.

Hope I helped. Sorry again to hear about the loss. It is a sad thing But out of ashes rises new life Hang in there.

 

[Jim Curtis]

If youre starting from scratch why not clean it with ammonia? Wouldnt that kill the disease? and you wouldnt have to worry about residue remaining as it will just help you start your cycle. That is a real bummer tho and hearing your story also makes me want to get a quarantine tank.

 

[Snake42490]

If you are going to do the ammonia route make sure you get pure ammonia.. The ammonia should consist of just water and ammonia (ammonium hydroxide is identical to aqueous ammonia). It should have no scents, colors, or anything else. If it foams when you shake it, its probably the wrong kind. Check the ingredients before u buy anything.. if it has the surfactant in it.. DONT BUY IT.. your best bet at finding some would probably be walmart or dollar general lol... all though for me neither worked.. hope thats some help.

 

[Soaup]

I had something very similar happen a few years back. All my fish just died in a matter of say 2 days. They were very unenergetic stopped eating, they retreated to the rocks and caves and just died. If you have any interest in saving the other too what i did was cranked the heat way up to kill any bacteria in the tank. It may also kill your fish but its worth a shot. My temp was cranked up to 92, i turned off the lights and wrapped the tank with a comforter. I saved maybe 4 fish out of the 15 but they are still alive today. I dont know if its the same thing but i do believe it was some sort of bacterial infection or parasite. Good luck! Soo sorry to hear about your fish.