Dipping Into The Salty Side
- Thread starter Boundava
- Start date
Beautiful markings on the fish.
I have a pair of the black and white Clarkii in a similar size tank with a flowerpot as they are in full breeding condition. They are super aggressive. I just can't put my hand in to clean the glass with a standard razor as they really nip me and on one occasion the male drew blood.
I swear if they were the same size as a barracuda they'd win a fight with one.
You say you'd like another bubble anemone. You can split them easily enough by cutting them in half. Sounds horrendous but it's sort of like a starfish growing from a lost leg.
I have a pair of the black and white Clarkii in a similar size tank with a flowerpot as they are in full breeding condition. They are super aggressive. I just can't put my hand in to clean the glass with a standard razor as they really nip me and on one occasion the male drew blood.
I swear if they were the same size as a barracuda they'd win a fight with one.
You say you'd like another bubble anemone. You can split them easily enough by cutting them in half. Sounds horrendous but it's sort of like a starfish growing from a lost leg.
I have 3 bubble anemone so am currently good with anemone. I have/had a full bubble coral and my second has lost almost all of its polyps for some unknown reason. The bubble corals are supposed to be the only coral camel shrimp won't eat
My sister's clown is very hand aggressive, he's a domino. Mine is a snowflake, and I thought his markings resembled those cartoon bubbles so I named him Kirby after cartoonist Jack Kirby. He is super sweet and never bites me when I do maintenance.
Your anemonefish/ clownfish is a female. When an anemonefish sets up a territory and is the dominant fish in the area, it turns into a female. Any clownfish that is kept on its own for a couple of weeks will also turn into a female.Kirby (my clownfish) had found his purpose in life
That link doesn't work, for me anyway...
The link is from a book called "A Field Guide to Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones" by Daphne G Fautin and Gerald R Allen.
Published by the Western Australian Museum in 1992
ISBN
0730983927 (hardcover)
073098365X (paperback)
---------------------
This is a quote from the book and includes Larval Life and Social Structure.
LARVAL LIFE AND SETTLEMENT
Hatching generally occurs during the evening, shortly after dark on the sixth or seventh day after the eggs are laid. In an aquarium, the freshly hatched fish first sink to the bottom, but within a few minutes, swim to the upper part of the tank. The larvae are about 3-4 mm total length and transparent except for a few scattered pigmented spots, the eye, and the yolk sac. Recent studies of larval duration in damselfishes have greatly improved knowledge of early life history stages. By counting the daily growth rings in the ear bones (otoliths) with an electron microscope, scientists can determine the time between hatching and transformation to the juvenile stage. There is much variation between species of damselfishes, with the longest larval stages about 6-8 weeks. Clownfishes have the shortest larval period of damsels, ranging from about 8 to 12 days. It is assumed that during this time they are planktonic -- living in the surface waters of the ocean, where they are passively transported by currents. The short larval stage of anemonefishes is no doubt responsible for the localised distribution of many species.
The larval stage terminates when a young fish settles to the sea bottom and begins to assume the juvenile colour pattern. Aquarium observations indicate this metamorphosis is a rapid process, occurring within a day or so. At this stage it is vital for the young Amphiprion or Premnas to find a suitable anemone host or it will surely be consumed by one of its many predators. There is evidence that fish of some species can actively search and follow a trail of chemicals released by a host anemone, but others seem not to do that, and may locate a suitable host by sight, or simply encounter one by chance. For fish of some species, it takes several hours to become fully acclimated to the anemone once it is located; this is achieved by a series of progressively longer contacts with the tentacles, like the elaborate "acclimation behaviour" seen when an adult fish is artificially removed from its host. Other fishes seem capable of swimming right in without harm, according to Miyagawa (see chapter 5). Although she denied they go through "acclimation behaviour", she described swimming that resembles such behaviour. With 10 species of host actinians and 28 species of fish, there are probably many variations on how hosts are located and adapted to.
We assume that metamorphosis requires the presence of an anemone, since the fishes seem defenceless without one. We and others have done experiments proving that even adult anemonefishes cannot survive for long without the protection of a host actinian. What is obvious is that there are far fewer open slots available in appropriate anemones than there are fish to fill them. So there must be tremendous mortality among fry and larvae.
Even if it successfully locates an anemone, the immediate survival of the fish is not guaranteed. If the host is already occupied by anemonefish, the unusual social structure of the inhabitants makes life difficult for a newcomer. The number of fish that occupy a single anemone depends on species of fish, size of host, and sometimes size of the fish as well, but typically there is an adult pair and two to four smaller fish. As will be explained more fully below, the largest fish is usually the female and the next largest individual is her mate. A hierarchy, or "peck-order", exists in which the female is the dominant individual. There is generally an amicable relationship between the adult pair, and aggressiveness by the female is largely channeled into ritualised, non-harmful displays. Aggression is more overt farther down the hierarchy. The male spends considerable time chasing and "bullying" the next largest individual, which in turn vents its aggression on the smaller fish. Therefore, a new arrival becomes the immediate target for the resident fish. Attacks may be so severe as to drive away the newcomer, who must find another anemone or perish.
SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND SEX REVERSAL
The phenomenon of sex reversal is an intriguing component of anemonefish life history, the details of which have been discovered only in the past decade. Sex change occurs in many fishes. For example, it is now well established that most wrasses (Labridae) and parrotfishes (Scaridae) begin adult life as females and later assume the more colourful male phase. Similar changes are widespread among gropers (Serranidae), particularly in the subfamily Anthiinae, commonly known as fairy basslets. Therefore, it was not surprising to discover that this phenomenon extends to some pomacentrids as well. However, the unusual aspect of sex reversal in clownfishes is that the change is from male to female (protandrous hermaphroditism; the more common sort is protogynous hermaphroditism). As mentioned above, the largest and socially dominant fish in a particular anemone (or cluster of anemones in the case of Entacmaea quadricolor) is generally the female, whose gonads are functioning ovaries with remnants of degenerate testicular tissue. The smaller male, which in species such as A. frenatus and P. biaculeatus may be less than half the size of the female, has gonads that are functioning testes but also possess non-functioning or latent ovarian cells. If the dominant female dies or is experimentally removed, the male's gonads cease to function as testes and the egg producing cells become active. Simultaneously, the largest of the non-breeding individuals becomes the functioning male. This adaptation allows continuous reproduction; without it, an adult would have to await the arrival of a fish of the appropriate sex (which it would be only 50% of the time), thereby losing valuable breeding time, or it would have to seek out a mate, leaving its anemone and thereby risking predation both on itself and on its symbiont.
There is no difference in colouration between sexes in most anemonefishes, but there are exceptions. The sex-related colour difference is not always present in A. clarkii. In addition, slight differences may occur between sexes of A. perideraion and A. akallopisos. Males of both species often have orange margins on the soft dorsal and caudal fins. In P. biaculeatus, colour differences may be related more to size than to sex per se.
Published by the Western Australian Museum in 1992
ISBN
0730983927 (hardcover)
073098365X (paperback)
---------------------
This is a quote from the book and includes Larval Life and Social Structure.
LARVAL LIFE AND SETTLEMENT
Hatching generally occurs during the evening, shortly after dark on the sixth or seventh day after the eggs are laid. In an aquarium, the freshly hatched fish first sink to the bottom, but within a few minutes, swim to the upper part of the tank. The larvae are about 3-4 mm total length and transparent except for a few scattered pigmented spots, the eye, and the yolk sac. Recent studies of larval duration in damselfishes have greatly improved knowledge of early life history stages. By counting the daily growth rings in the ear bones (otoliths) with an electron microscope, scientists can determine the time between hatching and transformation to the juvenile stage. There is much variation between species of damselfishes, with the longest larval stages about 6-8 weeks. Clownfishes have the shortest larval period of damsels, ranging from about 8 to 12 days. It is assumed that during this time they are planktonic -- living in the surface waters of the ocean, where they are passively transported by currents. The short larval stage of anemonefishes is no doubt responsible for the localised distribution of many species.
The larval stage terminates when a young fish settles to the sea bottom and begins to assume the juvenile colour pattern. Aquarium observations indicate this metamorphosis is a rapid process, occurring within a day or so. At this stage it is vital for the young Amphiprion or Premnas to find a suitable anemone host or it will surely be consumed by one of its many predators. There is evidence that fish of some species can actively search and follow a trail of chemicals released by a host anemone, but others seem not to do that, and may locate a suitable host by sight, or simply encounter one by chance. For fish of some species, it takes several hours to become fully acclimated to the anemone once it is located; this is achieved by a series of progressively longer contacts with the tentacles, like the elaborate "acclimation behaviour" seen when an adult fish is artificially removed from its host. Other fishes seem capable of swimming right in without harm, according to Miyagawa (see chapter 5). Although she denied they go through "acclimation behaviour", she described swimming that resembles such behaviour. With 10 species of host actinians and 28 species of fish, there are probably many variations on how hosts are located and adapted to.
We assume that metamorphosis requires the presence of an anemone, since the fishes seem defenceless without one. We and others have done experiments proving that even adult anemonefishes cannot survive for long without the protection of a host actinian. What is obvious is that there are far fewer open slots available in appropriate anemones than there are fish to fill them. So there must be tremendous mortality among fry and larvae.
Even if it successfully locates an anemone, the immediate survival of the fish is not guaranteed. If the host is already occupied by anemonefish, the unusual social structure of the inhabitants makes life difficult for a newcomer. The number of fish that occupy a single anemone depends on species of fish, size of host, and sometimes size of the fish as well, but typically there is an adult pair and two to four smaller fish. As will be explained more fully below, the largest fish is usually the female and the next largest individual is her mate. A hierarchy, or "peck-order", exists in which the female is the dominant individual. There is generally an amicable relationship between the adult pair, and aggressiveness by the female is largely channeled into ritualised, non-harmful displays. Aggression is more overt farther down the hierarchy. The male spends considerable time chasing and "bullying" the next largest individual, which in turn vents its aggression on the smaller fish. Therefore, a new arrival becomes the immediate target for the resident fish. Attacks may be so severe as to drive away the newcomer, who must find another anemone or perish.
SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND SEX REVERSAL
The phenomenon of sex reversal is an intriguing component of anemonefish life history, the details of which have been discovered only in the past decade. Sex change occurs in many fishes. For example, it is now well established that most wrasses (Labridae) and parrotfishes (Scaridae) begin adult life as females and later assume the more colourful male phase. Similar changes are widespread among gropers (Serranidae), particularly in the subfamily Anthiinae, commonly known as fairy basslets. Therefore, it was not surprising to discover that this phenomenon extends to some pomacentrids as well. However, the unusual aspect of sex reversal in clownfishes is that the change is from male to female (protandrous hermaphroditism; the more common sort is protogynous hermaphroditism). As mentioned above, the largest and socially dominant fish in a particular anemone (or cluster of anemones in the case of Entacmaea quadricolor) is generally the female, whose gonads are functioning ovaries with remnants of degenerate testicular tissue. The smaller male, which in species such as A. frenatus and P. biaculeatus may be less than half the size of the female, has gonads that are functioning testes but also possess non-functioning or latent ovarian cells. If the dominant female dies or is experimentally removed, the male's gonads cease to function as testes and the egg producing cells become active. Simultaneously, the largest of the non-breeding individuals becomes the functioning male. This adaptation allows continuous reproduction; without it, an adult would have to await the arrival of a fish of the appropriate sex (which it would be only 50% of the time), thereby losing valuable breeding time, or it would have to seek out a mate, leaving its anemone and thereby risking predation both on itself and on its symbiont.
There is no difference in colouration between sexes in most anemonefishes, but there are exceptions. The sex-related colour difference is not always present in A. clarkii. In addition, slight differences may occur between sexes of A. perideraion and A. akallopisos. Males of both species often have orange margins on the soft dorsal and caudal fins. In P. biaculeatus, colour differences may be related more to size than to sex per se.
Thanks for the information, however it seems to say what everyone else is saying that I was reading. The fact that they start out as males and they revert to females when there is a lack of a female in a group. Nowhere does it stay when you have a single male if they will spontaneously change sex to a female. Are you basing this on the fact that they have accepted anemone, and this is making them dominant which would suggest that they are converting to female? I really wanted my little guy to stay a guy.
I have kept anemonefish for 20 years. When there is no mature female, the dominant male turns into a female. The dominant juvenile becomes the breeding male and the remaining juveniles all move up one spot in the pecking order.
Any anemonefish that is kept on its own for more than 2 weeks will become a female. They don't need an anemone to change either. We kept plenty in tanks without anemones or corals and they all change into females when kept on their own.
If you buy a pair of anemonefish from a group, get a big one and a small one and they will settle down faster. If you already have one anemonefish, buy a small one from a group so it can become the male.
Any anemonefish that is kept on its own for more than 2 weeks will become a female. They don't need an anemone to change either. We kept plenty in tanks without anemones or corals and they all change into females when kept on their own.
If you buy a pair of anemonefish from a group, get a big one and a small one and they will settle down faster. If you already have one anemonefish, buy a small one from a group so it can become the male.
So I have been thinking about consolidating some tanks...
Currently I have the 10 gallon with my clown, eye spot goby, pistol/goby pair, urchin, (hopefully) 3 bubble anemone, bubble coral and asst snails and live rock. Filters are 1 Azoo 150 HOB and a Fluval canister ( the smallest one set up to an undergravel filter plate -UGF) and 1 nano currentmaker.
I also have a 12 gallon rimless tank that had 10 expensive saltwater rainbow fish (now 6), two corals and an asst of snails and live rock. Filters are 2 Azoo 60 HOB and 1 nano currentmaker.
Additionally I have a 33 gallon brackish tank with at least 4 goblin leaf fish (scorpion fish) and 4-6 bumblebee gobies. The scorpion fish can go full marine, the gobies can do full freshwater. Filter is one Azoo 250 filled with chaeto and 1 Sicce internal filter. Have a love rock in there as well as an assortment of lava rocks that I am sure have a colony of BB thriving in there.
Goal is to break down the 10 gallon and 12 gallon and move it all into the 33. The BB gobies will go with my Betta Geralt in the 10 gallon. The scorpion fish will get the 12 gallon with its current snail and coral population. All of the 10 gallon SW will go into the 33 along with the rocks and substrate. I will be adding an UG plate to the bottom of the tank and using the canister as well as a Marineland power head to push water down into the UGF.
I keep deciding between leaving the rainbow on their own or the scorpion fish (which will eat the $15 fish). I also don't like the 12 gallon as a SW tank as even with the lid there is a lot of evaporation.
Will try to show what I am talking about when I get home today as it's hard to explain it all, and I am at work...
Currently I have the 10 gallon with my clown, eye spot goby, pistol/goby pair, urchin, (hopefully) 3 bubble anemone, bubble coral and asst snails and live rock. Filters are 1 Azoo 150 HOB and a Fluval canister ( the smallest one set up to an undergravel filter plate -UGF) and 1 nano currentmaker.
I also have a 12 gallon rimless tank that had 10 expensive saltwater rainbow fish (now 6), two corals and an asst of snails and live rock. Filters are 2 Azoo 60 HOB and 1 nano currentmaker.
Additionally I have a 33 gallon brackish tank with at least 4 goblin leaf fish (scorpion fish) and 4-6 bumblebee gobies. The scorpion fish can go full marine, the gobies can do full freshwater. Filter is one Azoo 250 filled with chaeto and 1 Sicce internal filter. Have a love rock in there as well as an assortment of lava rocks that I am sure have a colony of BB thriving in there.
Goal is to break down the 10 gallon and 12 gallon and move it all into the 33. The BB gobies will go with my Betta Geralt in the 10 gallon. The scorpion fish will get the 12 gallon with its current snail and coral population. All of the 10 gallon SW will go into the 33 along with the rocks and substrate. I will be adding an UG plate to the bottom of the tank and using the canister as well as a Marineland power head to push water down into the UGF.
I keep deciding between leaving the rainbow on their own or the scorpion fish (which will eat the $15 fish). I also don't like the 12 gallon as a SW tank as even with the lid there is a lot of evaporation.
Will try to show what I am talking about when I get home today as it's hard to explain it all, and I am at work...
WhistlingBadger
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Been there, Nat. You've been SO deep into the hobby for so long through so much craziness, it would be understandable if you needed a break. If you do, my advice would be to keep a tank or two stashed away somewhere. It took me about a year before I started feeling the pull again, and another six months or so to actually start on something. Nothing wrong with taking a break and focusing on other things if that's what you need to do.
Well brown slime infested the 12 gallon and I was able to save a turbo snail and my tiger conch but the little rainbows are gone and the other snails as well as the two larger corals too. I am hoping one of the corals will come back, but 99% sure it's a goner as well. They are in my 10 gallon.
I will be breaking down my 75gallon with the Pavo eels, dojo/weather loaches, Borneo eels, "common" pleco, royal pleco and a smattering of danios.
The Pavos will be donated to my local fish store as neither Sis or I want to deal with shipping, especially now it's super hot. I will be sad to see them go but they need red wigglers every-every other day and are easily out competed with other fish otherwise I would put them in the 125.
The two Borneo eels will go in the 125 along with my royal pleco. The "common" (" " because common encompasses so many varietis) will go into the 120 acrylic with my sister's wolf fish and the wild blue acara and the large BN male pleco. The remailing danios will go in the 125 as there maybe 3-5.
I have a 20L wich had my pangio loaches, key word had. It now has one Betta hendra (out of 3) and a danio we forgot to remove.
Was thinking of emptying the tank and moving my shrimp and wild Betta inhabitants from the little 3 gallon I set up as an Egyptian lotus grow out tank. Then I would just put the lone hendra in with the other wild Betta pair and the yellow shrimp.
Have another 20L which was a grouput tank for our 2 tire track eels. Thing with these types of eels is they think the whole world is wet, unfortunately they assumed wrong. So now the tank is home to 5 ninja driftwood cats, some small tetras/danios and a Betta splendens; Two Buck Chuck.
Would like to break this tank down but have no idea if the cats would be ok in my 120, and dunno where the Betta and small tetras would go as they would be a snack for my Sister's large cichlids in the 120. They maybe better in the 125, though I have a king Betta in there already.
With the broken custom 120 down, I have an extra FX4 which I will setup on the 125. I have an FX6 set up on it already along with the Top Fin Pro 110 HOB (which I will be removing).
Sis thinks we have another FX4 that she got used, if so I will set that up on my 120 and also remove the HOB. It already has a FX4 on it, but it very well stocked and I think needs the extra filtration.
So if I can rearrange/break down the 75, 20L, put the 3 gallon in the other 20L it should be better.
Sis also wants to take down her 40 breeder which has a smattering of spiny eels, dwarf rainbows, river gobies, Dandelion my Betta (have to figure out where he can go) and my 4 clown pleco/panaques ( my oldest just passed-she was a bit over 17 years old).
Thinking of trying to do this during this coming weekend; well at least breaking down the 75 gallon and setting up the FX4s.
This past weekend/Sunday I took down the ripe 12 gallon (think dead snail smell *100% and add gelatin water and slime) and did a 90% WC on the 75 and 60% on the 120 and 125. I also emptied my turtles water feature of all large rocks and flushed it out a few times. Of course the internal filted won't restart after I cleaned it. I have a Sicce internal filter I will replace it with. In my fun I didn't take care of myself with food/drink so I got very dizzy/lightheaded and nauseous Sunday night and into yesterday plus got a horrible tension headache so I called off as I wasn't going to risk driving in.
Won't make that mistake this coming weekend.
I will be breaking down my 75gallon with the Pavo eels, dojo/weather loaches, Borneo eels, "common" pleco, royal pleco and a smattering of danios.
The Pavos will be donated to my local fish store as neither Sis or I want to deal with shipping, especially now it's super hot. I will be sad to see them go but they need red wigglers every-every other day and are easily out competed with other fish otherwise I would put them in the 125.
The two Borneo eels will go in the 125 along with my royal pleco. The "common" (" " because common encompasses so many varietis) will go into the 120 acrylic with my sister's wolf fish and the wild blue acara and the large BN male pleco. The remailing danios will go in the 125 as there maybe 3-5.
I have a 20L wich had my pangio loaches, key word had. It now has one Betta hendra (out of 3) and a danio we forgot to remove.
Was thinking of emptying the tank and moving my shrimp and wild Betta inhabitants from the little 3 gallon I set up as an Egyptian lotus grow out tank. Then I would just put the lone hendra in with the other wild Betta pair and the yellow shrimp.
Have another 20L which was a grouput tank for our 2 tire track eels. Thing with these types of eels is they think the whole world is wet, unfortunately they assumed wrong. So now the tank is home to 5 ninja driftwood cats, some small tetras/danios and a Betta splendens; Two Buck Chuck.
Would like to break this tank down but have no idea if the cats would be ok in my 120, and dunno where the Betta and small tetras would go as they would be a snack for my Sister's large cichlids in the 120. They maybe better in the 125, though I have a king Betta in there already.
With the broken custom 120 down, I have an extra FX4 which I will setup on the 125. I have an FX6 set up on it already along with the Top Fin Pro 110 HOB (which I will be removing).
Sis thinks we have another FX4 that she got used, if so I will set that up on my 120 and also remove the HOB. It already has a FX4 on it, but it very well stocked and I think needs the extra filtration.
So if I can rearrange/break down the 75, 20L, put the 3 gallon in the other 20L it should be better.
Sis also wants to take down her 40 breeder which has a smattering of spiny eels, dwarf rainbows, river gobies, Dandelion my Betta (have to figure out where he can go) and my 4 clown pleco/panaques ( my oldest just passed-she was a bit over 17 years old).
Thinking of trying to do this during this coming weekend; well at least breaking down the 75 gallon and setting up the FX4s.
This past weekend/Sunday I took down the ripe 12 gallon (think dead snail smell *100% and add gelatin water and slime) and did a 90% WC on the 75 and 60% on the 120 and 125. I also emptied my turtles water feature of all large rocks and flushed it out a few times. Of course the internal filted won't restart after I cleaned it. I have a Sicce internal filter I will replace it with. In my fun I didn't take care of myself with food/drink so I got very dizzy/lightheaded and nauseous Sunday night and into yesterday plus got a horrible tension headache so I called off as I wasn't going to risk driving in.
Won't make that mistake this coming weekend.
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