Did ich kill all my fish?

[Wasp]

Hello- I am a total novice but have used the forums for tips and advice since starting out. We have a 48l tank which has 5 guppy and 1 bristle nose. We have nearly completed a full six week cycle having fish but I currently have no fish left as of today. Totally gutted.
We have checked the water continuously as we had the guppies initially and all was well. Temperature, plants fish were great. Went to local fish shop (where we bought the guppies a couple of weeks earlier) and got the lovely bristle nose and six cardinals (they suggested and they last about 4 days - I appreciate now they are very sensitive things and our nitrate was too high and since bought a filter for that that fixed that problem but not in time-lesson learnt! Seems we have high nitrate water before it even enters the tank). Problem is we went away for a couple of nights. When we left all was well. We came back to find bristle nose dead and half his abdomen missing (had he decomposed so quickly?) and we found the guppies looking awful. They had white bumps but more so their fins were all ruggered and bits missing. They then got a grey fuzz on them all over before dying one by one. We bought ich treatment as shop said it was ich and treated instantly but absolutely no chance of saving them. I am now worried I didn’t treat the right disease? And want to ensure tank is friendly before we got some more. I have raised the temperature to 30 and am continuing to treat ich. I took charcoal filters out before treating and am now on day three of treatment. Wish I took more photos. Sorry. Please help was it ich?!?!

 

[Byron]

Ich was likely one issue, but there may have been others. Cycling for one. First thing, do not take advice from the store staff. I know one would expect they know, but without knowing all the data and seeing the fish, they would at best only be guessing.

Keep the heat at 30C for two weeks, but do not use any ich medications. Do you have tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? If yes, what are the test results? Test the tank water for all three. And test the tap water on its own for all three; it is important to know what is coming in with the fresh water, and you have alluded to nitrate already.

Thinking ahead when you are able to get more fish--certainly do not get any until this is fully resolved, over the next few weeks--what is the GH (general hardness) and pH of your water?

 

[Essjay]

In Kent the water is likely to be hard - those white cliffs of Dover are chalk! But please check; your water company's website should give your hardness. You need a number and the unit of measurement (there are several) rather than some vague words.

 

[GaryE]

You're going to get conflicting info here.

That looks very much like Ich, and it was an infestation that was very advanced. On its own, it could easily have wiped your tank out. I think it probably had some help from a bacterial infection at the same time, as the patches and the very quick decomposition point that way. Chances are, from what I have heard of chalky water, that cardinals were carrying the parasite and or the disease from the store, and the stress of water they would not like would have let both run wild and spread.

If it's bacterial, then heat may help it survive. Ich may or may not be affected, but I have never found it to persist without hosts in my 55 years of fishkeeping, so I wouldn't bother with the very high heat. The fish, alas, are all dead and any freeswimming ich will already have been hit if the meds were good ones.

Where Byron and I will disagree is on the cycle aspect. You were doing fine, and adding that many new fish was a bit of a stress on the system, but it looks to me like two problems came in on that last batch of fish. That was a quarantine, buying a disease issue in my books, and while the shops would love us all to blame the cycle, that was bad luck if you have a good shop, or just what happens if you have a so so one.

I would do a series of water changes with dechlorinated water, while finding out what you have from the tap. It's going to matter, as a fish evolved in hard water will probably love it, while a fish from very soft water like a cardinal will be stressed. My water changes would be siphoned from the bottom, and I would do a few over the next 3 weeks. That'll give you time to read up on the fish that look good to you in the store, and to look up photos of the most common fish diseases online, so you can avoid them. If there's one sick fish in a tank, don't buy from it.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

My guess is that either disease or high ammonia and/or nitrites plus the stress of moving to the new tank would have killed the bristlenose, and then his decomposing body caused an ammonia spike. His abdomen being missing is due to other fish eating the body after he passed away. Most fish will do that, and yes, the body will begin releasing ammonia almost immediately, and the level of ammonia will continue to rise until the other fish also begin to suffer ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

For any crisis like this, clean fresh water is the best medicine, always. Find a dead fish, large water change - 70-80%. Fish seem to be struggling or ill, large water change first, then seek advice. Since that fresh water can buy you time to find out the real cause.

I'm so sorry you went through this. It does happen to so many people, fish store advice is so often terrible. They don't really investigate the problem or explain the cycle, just sell you some chemicals based on a guess, which often does nothing, or makes things worse.

Please don't give up. Keep the tank and filter running, some large water changes, and do more reading around here and elsewhere, before trying again! I hope it doesn't stop you, so many people go through this sort of thing then just sell the tank and give up. But we need more caring people in the hobby, so take the lessons, but don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[Wasp]

My guess is that either disease or high ammonia and/or nitrites plus the stress of moving to the new tank would have killed the bristlenose, and then his decomposing body caused an ammonia spike. His abdomen being missing is due to other fish eating the body after he passed away. Most fish will do that, and yes, the body will begin releasing ammonia almost immediately, and the level of ammonia will continue to rise until the other fish also begin to suffer ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

For any crisis like this, clean fresh water is the best medicine, always. Find a dead fish, large water change - 70-80%. Fish seem to be struggling or ill, large water change first, then seek advice. Since that fresh water can buy you time to find out the real cause.

I'm so sorry you went through this. It does happen to so many people, fish store advice is so often terrible. They don't really investigate the problem or explain the cycle, just sell you some chemicals based on a guess, which often does nothing, or makes things worse.

Please don't give up. Keep the tank and filter running, some large water changes, and do more reading around here and elsewhere, before trying again! I hope it doesn't stop you, so many people go through this sort of thing then just sell the tank and give up. But we need more caring people in the hobby, so take the lessons, but don't be too hard on yourself.

Thank you. Checked all levels the day I found the dead bristle and all seemed correct but I did do a 25% water change immediately (Saturday) I did a specific ammonia test and that was 0-0.5 so wasn’t too worried there.
Sad about the idea of the others eating him. Will keep trying.

 

[Wasp]

You're going to get conflicting info here.

That looks very much like Ich, and it was an infestation that was very advanced. On its own, it could easily have wiped your tank out. I think it probably had some help from a bacterial infection at the same time, as the patches and the very quick decomposition point that way. Chances are, from what I have heard of chalky water, that cardinals were carrying the parasite and or the disease from the store, and the stress of water they would not like would have let both run wild and spread.

If it's bacterial, then heat may help it survive. Ich may or may not be affected, but I have never found it to persist without hosts in my 55 years of fishkeeping, so I wouldn't bother with the very high heat. The fish, alas, are all dead and any freeswimming ich will already have been hit if the meds were good ones.

Where Byron and I will disagree is on the cycle aspect. You were doing fine, and adding that many new fish was a bit of a stress on the system, but it looks to me like two problems came in on that last batch of fish. That was a quarantine, buying a disease issue in my books, and while the shops would love us all to blame the cycle, that was bad luck if you have a good shop, or just what happens if you have a so so one.

I would do a series of water changes with dechlorinated water, while finding out what you have from the tap. It's going to matter, as a fish evolved in hard water will probably love it, while a fish from very soft water like a cardinal will be stressed. My water changes would be siphoned from the bottom, and I would do a few over the next 3 weeks. That'll give you time to read up on the fish that look good to you in the store, and to look up photos of the most common fish diseases online, so you can avoid them. If there's one sick fish in a tank, don't buy from it.

Readings on the test strip just now seem all I. Tolerance (not done a change since Saturday) readings were the same before the change. The only one that seems to be at the higher end is hardness. Think that is between 150-300. I will do a water 75% water changes and a gravel clean, leaving it at 30oc for next two weeks.
The water from the tap (before I add tap safe etc ) is hard and high in nitrate but I have been using a nitrate filter following the cardinals not surviving. Do I need to soften my water?
Photos show tank and tap water results.
Ammonia has been really low 0. Using tetra test strips for that.

 

[Wasp]

Readings on the test strip just now seem all I. Tolerance (not done a change since Saturday) readings were the same before the change. The only one that seems to be at the higher end is hardness. Think that is between 150-300. I will do a water 75% water changes and a gravel clean, leaving it at 30oc for next two weeks.
The water from the tap (before I add tap safe etc ) is hard and high in nitrate but I have been using a nitrate filter following the cardinals not surviving. Do I need to soften my water?
Photos show tank and tap water results.
Ammonia has been really low 0. Using tetra test strips for that.

Thank you I really appreciate all the advice. I will have my fingers crossed and will try again.

 

[Finn6419]

Hi, can you know that itch infects all fish in the freshwater and it has a high molarity rate, all the fish in the tank could be easily killed by itch.

 

[itiwhetu]

My five cents worth. There are easy fish to keep and then there are hard fish to keep. Easy fish are things like Cherry Barbs and Lemon Tetras they are hard to kill. Hard things to keep are the fish we all want to keep Cardinal Tetras, Discus, Glass catfish, Hatchet Fish etc. etc. We need to learn how to keep the easy fish first, Boring fish will teach you a lot, so then when you have enough knowledge you will be able to keep the fish you really want to.