Desperation

[FishFanatic04]

lol Snazy.

 

[qkingston]

Thanks for all the help guys; since my last post (3 days ago) the ammonia reading has continued a slow drift down - now 1.5ppm. A few other figures may help
Tank 115 litres/25gal(UK) Temp 30 deg C/85 deg F.
Nitrite 0 (still!)
Nitrate 20
pH 6.0 to 6.5
Day 59

Should I still be doing water changes during the cycle, if so how much how often?
I take the comments about low pH which may be slowing it down, should I try and raise it for the cycle purpose, if so how?

Grateful for your advice

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Hmmm, it is strange that you have no nitrite yet. In my very limited knowledge I didn't know it was even possible! But you can raise your pH by adding bicarbonate of soda. Keep adding it until you get up to 8.0. There is a risk involved here because if you change the pH too quickly it can stall the cycle. So do it gradually. Dissolve the bicarb in some tank water and add it to the tank. Do this over several hours until it is near 8.0. Again be careful though as bicarb is not permanent and it will eventually drop again and a large drop can stall your cycle - so keep an eye out.

Another member on this forum suggested adding crushed coral to the tank to raise the pH more safely (and permanently, until you change the water/remove the coral). You can put the coral in a stocking if you want to take it back out again. I never tried this because my cycle seemed to get back going again when I reduced my ammonia dose but would be worth a try!

EDIT: also, again I have limited knowledge, but I won't do any more water changes. I think sometimes we can mess about too much and do more harm than good.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You guys are talking about such a low Ph that most fish will just turn belly up if subjected to. How would ammonia matter then

And now for a few interesting factoids;

Most of the worlds blackwater rivers are in the Amazon basin or the southern USA.

The longest left tributary of the Amazon is the Rio Negro which is also the longest blackwater river in the world. The pH of the river is about 4.5. Here is a link to about 200 of the different fish found there http/fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystems/Rio%20Negro.htm

Now most fishkeepers may never keep the wild variants- but the list includes such rare fish as discus, angels, plecos, corys, Apistos, all kinds of dwarf cichlids.......

Just because the average fish keeper may never keep any of these amazing fish as wild caughts does not mean no fish keepers do. And the science of this all does not change just because one doesn't.

So, the fact may be that for most fish keepers having a pH under about 6.5 causes problems with cycling and that under 6.0 it is impossible for them. Moreover, most hobbyists may never have to deal with this. But the fact remains that nitrification can and does occur in acid waters and that it is done by the very same kinds of bacteria that are at work in the higher more common tank pH levels.

Saying that a pH drop to about 6.5 and below causes complications with the "normal" cycling process is one thing, saying it can't be done or that fish keepers with tanks at a pH <6.0 must change water almost daily to keep fish in it simply is not factual. This is how all the urban myths of fish keeping get started and kept alive.

I suggest it would be better stated to say:

In regards to cycling it is difficult for most fish keepers to deal with pH drops to 6.5 and below. As such they are to be avoided since they can impede the cycling process in most tanks. However, it is possible to establish nitrification at lower pH levels (down to 4.0 or lower) given sufficient time and experience.

 

[qkingston]

Whilst the geography and science lessons are very interesting; I am trying to get started in this hobby and I need some practical advice. Can anyone help pse?

 

[cynic]

I cheated and used mature media instead.

150mile drive to get it granted but after a week to be sure it was good to go i've not looked back.

If your near Northampton your welcome to some.

Your not in Northamptonshire then....?

 

[qkingston]

West coast of Scotland!

 

[cynic]

OOOH LOOOng way off then.

There may still be somebody in your area have you had a look on the list.

 

[TraceyB]

West coast of Scotland!

I went to my local fish shop and they gave me some ...... Try that... If you live near Glasgow. Contact coral reef aquatics they may help. Phone them first

http/www.coralreefaquatics.co.uk/content/contact/

 

[qkingston]

Thanks guys, and thx Tracey for yr PM, I will see if my nearest place can do that; I've also bumped up my pH to 7.5 to see if that will get the little b****** going!!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

qkingston, I did give you the help you requested. My post was the very first response you your thread and I told you exactly what to do. I also warned folks would come behind me and tell you differently. They did, you listened to them and you are still having problems. Why am I not surprised. Two other posters responded as well telling you the same thing- you are dosing too much ammonia. You chose to ignore them as well. I bet they are not surprised you are still having problems either.

Whenever I spot a material misstatement of scientific fact, I will challenge it. I did so in your thread and I apologize again for that. However, I will not apologize for trying to help folks separate the urban aquarium myths from the scientific facts.

One final observation, when one posts on sites asking for advice/help, there will always be a diversity of suggestions/opinions posted in response. Often they will conflict with one another and the result is a lot of confusion for the OP. The best thing a poster can do is to pick the advice of just one of the respondiers and then work with them one on one via private communication. Either the advice is decent and it works and you also learn you have a person who is a good source of info/help. Or else the advice is incorrect and it doesn't help or it makes things worse, and then find out to whom you should not listen in the future.

If you want my help with your problem, shoot me a PM.

 

[Xraymark]

From your water parameters your ph appears to be the limiting factor. You have now resolved that so hopefully things should speed up.

Don't forget to agitate your water surface to get the O2 in. Your topic has created some interesting discussion.

edit. As TTA has stated don't redose your ammonia too high. Once you get that first drop redose to about 2ppm and then you can work up to 4-5ppm.

 

[qkingston]

See, where all this started was following the advice in the beginners section of fishless cycling which advises 2 possible methods, unfortunately I chose the wrong following some other advice and went for the "add daily" method for ammonia. That didn't work so ever since I have been trying to get the "add and wait" method to kick off (with a mega water change in between the 2 approaches). I am following TTAs advice with higher temp and lower ammonia, together with a gentle boost to the pH to help things out. I guess I'll just have to wait and see whether this plan works now.

 

[Xraymark]

Who would think keeping fish would be this complicated.

 

[cynic]

Wait till he starts choosing fish