Desperate For Some Advice On Planting.

[DJC1]

Right, this might be a long one.

I was partway through a fishless cycle but things weren't going as expected.

So I have done a 100% water change, and am going to try Bactinettes instead.

Anyway, I was going to plant it after the fishless clycle, but have decided to plant it before.

I went to my local lfs and purchased an array of plants (not knowing what I was really looking at).

I have refilled the aquarium and planted the plants just to get them back into the water while I decided what to do.

Well I'm not too impressed with the overall look of it, and only just recently have I looked into the planted section of the forum and realised I may have made a mistake.

First of all, this is my setup.

65ltr tank.
Fluval 2+ Filter. I have the adapter on the top of the filter which sucks air and pumps it into the water.
Heater
Lights - 2 double bulbs (11 watt - I don't know if that is combined or single) - one bulb is slightly pinky, the other one is more white, this is the same for both double bulbs.
Substrate - black and white fine gravel, about 3 inches deep.

I don't know what type of plants I have, or even if they are recommended for what I want, but below are some pictures.

I guess the larger ones are meant for the back, there's a couple of medium size ones (for the middle?), but no smaller ones.
I didn't want the smaller ones as they were all in pots, as I want to be able to plant straight in the substrate, but I guess you are meant to remove the pots?

Some of the plants just float to the top no matter how deep they are planted, others...there's just no real shape to anything. It all looks just plonked in.

Arrghhh, really pissed off at the moment. I'm wet, my carpets are wet, and my tank looks...crap.

I will be starting of the Bacinettes part of the fishless cycle this afternoon, so would really like to get the tank planted properly before then - I can get back to the lfs if I need to.

HELP PLEASE!!!

 

[DevUK]

I think the two vallis plants you have (long straight leaves) would look good spread slightly in one corner, and the elodea/egeria densa (green long spikey) and what looks like some sort of cabomba (red fuzzy) would look good in the other corner (again, spread out a bit). The cabomba and elodea will grow quite tall (especially the elodea, which will grow to the surface and keep growing, allowing you to trim and re-plant the cuttings). Then perhaps the amazon sword (I think thats what it is, broad leaved plant) would be nice a little further forwards and in a bit. My guess is the leaves will droop downwards a bit and make it look more "bushy" within a few weeks. Its probably been growing in a tight space with other plants around it, and has grown upwards to reach for the light. Now its a little less confined I think it'll bush outwards a bit.

Those are two nice pieces of wood, but they sort of make a barrier between the plants and the substrate at the front. Might be worth re-arranging them, and perhaps trying to break up the line of wood a bit by planting in front of it. Also, I don't know what fish you want to get, but you might consider making a "cave" like feature. Fish such as cories like somewhere to hide, as well as shrimps and the like.

Hope that helps

 

[DJC1]

Cheers DevUK, I'll get started on that.

But just a quick question, what is the best way to physically plant them?

You say to try and spread out the vallis, but trying to plant a couple of individual roots at a time is a nightmare!
I'm try to sort of tunnel a hole out with my finger, plant a couple, then level out around it with substrate, but when I try and make a hole for the next couple near the previous ones, it just ends up disturbing the ones I've already planted and they come floating back up to the surface!

Am I doing something fundamentally wrong here?

 

[DevUK]

Cheers DevUK, I'll get started on that.

But just a quick question, what is the best way to physically plant them?

You say to try and spread out the vallis, but trying to plant a couple of individual roots at a time is a nightmare!
I'm try to sort of tunnel a hole out with my finger, plant a couple, then level out around it with substrate, but when I try and make a hole for the next couple near the previous ones, it just ends up disturbing the ones I've already planted and they come floating back up to the surface!

Am I doing something fundamentally wrong here?

Not doing it wrong but, your doing it the hard way By far the best way I know is to use some tweezers or even better, some forceps (long tweezers). With the tweezers you gently grip the base of the stem (etc) and push it into the gravel gently, without getting your fingers into the gravel. You see, your fingers move too much gravel out of the way and its difficult to get it to sit firmly. Tweezers move less gravel out of the way so you get a firmer hold

 

[DJC1]

Gotcha cheers...I suppose you're going to tell me aswell that I should have planted them before I filled the tank?

 

[DJC1]

DevUK, that tweezer suggestion was genius in it's simplicity.

I agree about the wood seperating the tank, but because of the shape of the large piece (you can't see in the picture, but there is a third 'leg' sticking out the back), that is the only place it can go.
And yes, they are two very nice pieces of wood and also not visible in the first picture, they should make the perfect cave/hiding place (i've sat them up a bit now).

It's not perfect, but I'm sure you'll agree it is an improvement.

I will add a few smaller ones to the front of the tank also, maybe in the arc of the large piece of wood (suggestions of small plant type welcome), and I am also hoping that when it matures a bit, the other plants should fill the tank a lot better (I may get a couple more for the back anyway).

Any suggestions on ways to improve it are most welcome.

 

[DevUK]

Looking good so far Glad the tweezer idea worked for you! It seems to be one of those secret techniques handed down from person to person on the planted forum

I guess you could consider something attached to the wood. Java fern is a great first plant. Its pretty tough stuff and is hard to kill, though lack of nutrients will eventually send the leaves brown and blotchy, but to be honest your other plants will suffer worse if that happens. There are several different kinds of java fern. I really like the "narrow" variety as its a little more dainty as the leaves are more slender. I'm also trying to get hold of some "philippine" variety as I like the look of that too (more firm long leaf with a stronger pattern).

You could also consider some mosses tied to the wood. Java moss is the easiest to get hold of and a good starter too. I really like the look of fissenden moss, and weeping moss. There are a lot out there but do some research first (search about on here ) Most of the mosses are easy to grow.

Java fern and the mosses are tied to the wood, using cotton or fishing wire. After about a month or so you should be able to remove the ties and it should have attached to the wood.

As for small plants at the front. Well, something that carpets might be nice, but a lot of carpeting plants can be difficult to grow without the right nutrients and light (some might dissagree about the light being an issue). I have some Marsilea hirsuta which is quite cool. It starts off looking like 4 leaved clovers, but you have to trim those off as they die off when its planted, and it grows single leaves. Spreads around and is quite cool.

You could consider a plant with rounder leaves. Bacopa australis is quite nice and grows fast. It can grow tall (up to 30cm), but grows in a bushy way and is easily trimmed. You can also trim it and re-plant the cuttings.

 

[ICEEGRL]

Personally, I think that wood has too much character to cover up with ferns or mosses. If you cover it then it becomes a big/huge blob. If you wanted to add something to the wood you could get a few small anubias plants to put here or there on it. Maybe they wouldn't take over quite like the fern or mosses.
My wood is ugly... I covered mine with moss and ferns.
e. tenellus is a good ground cover plant.
The addition of tiger lily or something would look good too.

 

[DevUK]

Personally, I think that wood has too much character to cover up with ferns or mosses. If you cover it then it becomes a big/huge blob. If you wanted to add something to the wood you could get a few small anubia plants to put here or there on it. Maybe they wouldn't take over quite like the fern or mosses.
My wood is ugly... I covered mine with moss and ferns.
e. tenellus is a good ground cover plant.

Yah, its nice wood But can still make a feature out of a fern attached to one end or something

 

[DJC1]

Thanks, I'll look into all those suggestions.

As you can probably guess, this is my first tank, so I'm new to all this.

Is there anything I need to consider with a tank this size and the plants I have (and may get), in regards to co2, nutrients, lighting...etc...

I've seen a lot of threads on all these different subjects, but I'm not sure if it will really relate to my tank?

I've currently got an adpator on the top of the filter which pumps air bubbles into the water - I'm not sure if this is oxygenating the water or not, but should this stay on or will the plants oxygenate the water...does it even matter?

 

[DevUK]

Basically, for your plants to really thrive you need 3 things. Light, nutrients (fertilisers) and CO2 (or a source of carbon - I'll explain later). Its about getting a balance though - something I'm still working on! Basically, if you have limited light (I believe you have about 1.2-1.3 wpg but thats with non-specific tubes) then you need to dose accordingly. If you do too much of one of these three then you'll start to get algae.

Check out the EI (Estimative Index) sticky post for ideas on ferts. Also, check out the DIY CO2 thread (might need to search for it) for ideas on one way provide carbon for the plants. There are other ways such as pressurised CO2 (actual gas cylinder) and also products such as Seachem Flourish Excel (I use this at the moment). The latter is a liquid that you add to the water once a day and is a source of carbon. Its a good alternative to CO2 and has a side benefit of helping to get rid of some algae (mostly hair algae), though if your balance is right, then that shouldn't be a problem anyway.

Ferts can be done several ways too. The most popular around here is Estimative Index. I've just started this recently myself and seems to be going ok. It can be a little more work to keep up though as you have to get a good routine going and breaking the routine can sometimes cause problems. You also should do 40 - 50% water changes weekly to reset the amount of ferts in the water. There are also products on the market that provide your basic nutrients (instead of using Estimative Index) and you simply put the required dose in as per the instructions.

To give you an idea of what I'm doing at the moment I'll list my "regime"

Monday - Add flourish excel dose

Tuesday - Add EI and trace ferts, flourish excel dose

Wednesday - Add flourish excel dose

Thursday - Add EI and trace ferts, flourish excel dose

Firday - Add flourish excel dose

Saturday - Rest day (nothing added).

Sunday - 40% water change, dose Flourish excel after and my EI ferts (2 dry powders that I mix with some water and then add to the tank) The ferts are KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and KH2PO4 (Potassium Phosphate). I also add my trace ferts (I use Tropica Plant Nutrition liquid).

This is all on my 180 litre tank. I'm still getting into the swing of it, but its not actually too hard to do

In the first instance though, you might consider the easier route of buying an off the shelf liquid fertiliser, untill you get to know your plants a little more and their requirements. If you're anything like a lot of us on here, you'll be wanting to re-plant it within a few months with different plants

 

[DJC1]

Cheers DevUK, doesn't all that excel get expensive?

Will these different ferts affect my choice of fish?

I'll hopefully be fish shopping in a couple of days and will be looking for community fish so may need to take this into consideration.

 

[DevUK]

Excel will get expensive in the long run, yeah. But I don't have the £70 - £100 to shell out on a pressurized system for my tank, and I think its a little too large for DIY CO2. I think Excel costs about £8 for a bottle that will last for maybe 2 months (I'm slightly under dosing).

Ferts won't really affect your fish choice unless you're looking at shrimp and invertibrates, and even then it probably won't really be a factor. Its the off the shelf liquids you have to be aware of. These sometimes say they aren't suitable for snails and other invertibrates, so just make sure you check first. The EI method doesn't really affect anything, although some like to make sure they spread the doses out, instead of fully dosing at once as this has been known to cause problems for shrimps I think.

Hope the bactinetts are working for you Don't forget to be testing your water regularly. Also, don't fully stock your tank in one go. I learnt the hard way and lost 3 or 4 of a group of 16 fish I bought for my 180 litre tank. Part of it was the stress of being moved around, but I'm sure stocking them all at once was a factor also Best thing to do is decide on what fish you want, and if its several different species, get one species group first and let them settle in for at least a few weeks (preferably longer). Then go for the next group, again leaving it a good few weeks etc. It lets your filter get used to the new bio load of your fish, as the bactinets will only get the good bacteria onto the filter. There won't be enough bacteria to cope with a full load straight away.

I wish I'd done this to be honest, but I still have some space in my tank, so I may be going shopping again soon (when I've got the planting sorted)

 

[DJC1]

Cheers DevUK, great help, I may be back on this thread at a later date.