Depressed Betta Fish

[Katewills4]

Hi guys! We've had our Betta for at least 7 months now and he's been absolutely fine until recently. His tail has started to shred a lot and we're not sure what he's damaging it on as most of our ornaments are smooth. He's become quite lethargic and uninterested in food. I've treated for fin rot and fungal infections just incase but it hasn't helped. We don't think it's fin rot because there's no white fuzziness at all and the fins aren't reducing in size they're just ripping it seems. Water parameters all fine, tried feeding a pea to see if it's constipation but he won't really eat much. We wondered if he's lonely or bored so went to get some rasboras and couple new ornaments yesterday which seems to have cheered him up a bit today. When asking the shop assistant he said our tank may be too big for him?! We have a 45 litre tank with many fake plants and caves/logs for him to hide in. He said he'd do better in a 30 litre tank and that he should be alone. This is just contradictory to what we've heard online and from friends so wondered what you experts thought? Only other fish in the tank are 5 otocinclus. We've turned the temp down to 24C as well as the tank is starting to get warm with the summer weather starting so wondered if he was just too hot. TIA!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Hi, can you get some photos of the betta please?

 

[AmyKieran]

What filter do you have running in this? Could it be possible that some of the ornaments may be sharp?

 

[GaryE]

It's normal for fins to shred, as they are a bit overbred, and those fins aren't always sustainable. My first reaction was to think the shop assistant was incompetent, but not having seen the Betta's fins, he/she may have a disturbingly valid point. It's possible the size of the fins is keeping the fish from being able to function normally. A reason that stores keep Bettas in tiny containers is that movement damages the fins, and people don't buy Bettas with used fins.

Personally, if I had long finned fancy bettas, I'd accept the damage and let the fish swim. He isn't an ornament, even if he's sold as one. The ripped fins are possibly a blessing for him. What matters most, the fins or the fish? Too many people would say the fins, and that's probably what the shop person has given in to. I'll wager he/she doesn't meet many customers who care about their bettas the way you do.

I kept many Betta splendens over a close to 50 year span, always in communities with live plants and rocks, and never once had a fin torn on decor. That's a plastic plant issue.

The lethargy is a concern, even if the fins aren't. Often, it's overfeeding. He's happiest around 25-26, but your 24 is fine. I would fast him a day or 2, then introduce a different food. Try a bug based flake, and not the Betta pellets they sell. Freeze dried bugs are good. He's a predator who whacks mosquitoes at the surface of the water, and a higher fibre, insect based diet is best for him. 3 different foods in rotation are ideal, all protein and fibre based.

There's always a chance he's ill with an internal problem, but no meds we can buy can deal with that so I'd proceed with the assumption he's good, and make some changes. He'll eat less as he ages too - the fins are grown and the body's where it's going to be.

He'll tolerate company, but he won't ever get lonely. He hates everyone and everything, and simply wants to keep everyone off his lawn. My Uncle's like that, and we all still care about him. If Bettas were people I think they'd be too smart for conspiracy theories, but they would be seriously grumpy.

 

[Katewills4]

Hi, can you get some photos of the betta please?

Hello, I'll attach these from a video I just managed to get.

 

[Katewills4]

It's normal for fins to shred, as they are a bit overbred, and those fins aren't always sustainable. My first reaction was to think the shop assistant was incompetent, but not having seen the Betta's fins, he/she may have a disturbingly valid point. It's possible the size of the fins is keeping the fish from being able to function normally. A reason that stores keep Bettas in tiny containers is that movement damages the fins, and people don't buy Bettas with used fins.

Personally, if I had long finned fancy bettas, I'd accept the damage and let the fish swim. He isn't an ornament, even if he's sold as one. The ripped fins are possibly a blessing for him. What matters most, the fins or the fish? Too many people would say the fins, and that's probably what the shop person has given in to. I'll wager he/she doesn't meet many customers who care about their bettas the way you do.

I kept many Betta splendens over a close to 50 year span, always in communities with live plants and rocks, and never once had a fin torn on decor. That's a plastic plant issue.

The lethargy is a concern, even if the fins aren't. Often, it's overfeeding. He's happiest around 25-26, but your 24 is fine. I would fast him a day or 2, then introduce a different food. Try a bug based flake, and not the Betta pellets they sell. Freeze dried bugs are good. He's a predator who whacks mosquitoes at the surface of the water, and a higher fibre, insect based diet is best for him. 3 different foods in rotation are ideal, all protein and fibre based.

There's always a chance he's ill with an internal problem, but no meds we can buy can deal with that so I'd proceed with the assumption he's good, and make some changes. He'll eat less as he ages too - the fins are grown and the body's where it's going to be.

He'll tolerate company, but he won't ever get lonely. He hates everyone and everything, and simply wants to keep everyone off his lawn. My Uncle's like that, and we all still care about him. If Bettas were people I think they'd be too smart for conspiracy theories, but they would be seriously grumpy.

Hello, thank you for your reply, here are some stills of him I just managed to get from a video. We definitely need to try other foods as we currently only have dried bloodworms as treats and Betta flakes as his day to day diet.

 

[Katewills4]

We have an aquaflow 50 in it at the moment. And one airstone.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Hello, thank you for your reply, here are some stills of him I just managed to get from a video. We definitely need to try other foods as we currently only have dried bloodworms as treats and Betta flakes as his day to day diet.

You have a video of him? That could help... I'm afraid the video upload feature on the forum doesn't work, but you can upload it to youtube and link it here.

 

[Katewills4]

You have a video of him? That could help... I'm afraid the video upload feature on the forum doesn't work, but you can upload it to youtube and link it here.

it might be rubbish quality

 

[Deleted member 149562]

He doesn't look depressed. He seems quite active, yes his finnage is a bit ragged but as Betta get older the long fin/tail variants is often normal cos it is impeding their ability to surface breathe...so they bite at it to lighten the load, biting the finnage can also be a stress sign...other fish in his territory will do that....his territory being the entire aquarium. Self harm in Betta is a common problem when stressed by territory intruders that refuse to go away

Your surface is a little naked too, so getting some floating plants (frogbit or similar) will benefit him by dropping the harshness of the light and give him a more natural sense of where he is

He should be alone...the size of aquarium is OK as long as it isn't overly deep...deep water and long finned/tailed Betta not a good idea

My recently adopted/rescued short finned Betta has artificial plants but real floaters...which he moves about with his nose in a very comical way, seems to keep him occupied for hours on end and he lives in a 30 litre cube on his own.

 

[Katewills4]

He doesn't look depressed. He seems quite active, yes his finnage is a bit ragged but as Betta get older the long fin/tail variants is often normal cos it is impeding their ability to surface breathe...so they bite at it to lighten the load, biting the finnage can also be a stress sign...other fish in his territory will do that....his territory being the entire aquarium. Self harm in Betta is a common problem when stressed by territory intruders that refuse to go away

Your surface is a little naked too, so getting some floating plants (frogbit or similar) will benefit him by dropping the harshness of the light and give him a more natural sense of where he is

He should be alone...the size of aquarium is OK as long as it isn't overly deep...deep water and long finned/tailed Betta not a good idea

My recently adopted/rescued short finned Betta has artificial plants but real floaters...which he moves about with his nose in a very comical way, seems to keep him occupied for hours on end and he lives in a 30 litre cube on his own.

Thanks for your reply, he spends most of his time just sitting at the bottom or in his floating log, I waited for a time when he was swimming to film him. He's not as active as he was when we got him 7 months ago. I didn't know they would shred them themselves! That's interesting. We've never used live plants before so wouldn't be sure how to introduce them into out artificial aquarium but that's a good tip!

 

[Valkyrie_Lips]

What are your water parameters and how often do you do water changes/how much each time?

 

[Katewills4]

What are your water parameters and how often do you do water changes/how much each time?

Our parameters all seem within normal ranges, 0 ammonia too. We do weekly changes around 30% a time

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The water level in the photo is very low, is that because of the shop assistant's daft advice that the betta is unhappy that the tank is too big? Can the tank be filled right to the top? Ignore that advice about the tank being too big... that's not a problem, and you're finding out what we all find out eventually- that many fish store employees don't know what they're doing, and some give really bad advice! Either because they want to sell you a product, or pretend they know what your issue is because they don't want to admit that they don't know the answer. Always take advice from any fish store (or any forum/group/FB chat/other hobbyist for that matter) with a pinch of salt, and do your own research first

Hello, thank you for your reply, here are some stills of him I just managed to get from a video. We definitely need to try other foods as we currently only have dried bloodworms as treats and Betta flakes as his day to day diet.

Make sure the food you have is still okay... fish food stays good for a while, but any containers of food I've had for longer than 3 months, I throw out. Fish foods contain fish oils, insects etc which can go rancid, and though it keeps a long time, it doesn't keep forever. He might have some nutritional deficiency if his diet has been limited to one brand of food and bloodworms, sure. Feeding 3-4 types of food so he has a variety gives him the best chance to get everything he needs. Bloodworms are a great treat, but limit them to once a week or so, since they're quite fatty. Think of it as his Friday pizza night blowout treat. You can get a variety of frozen foods that make a great treat and keep well. Something like mysis shrimp will still be a great treat to him, but healthier


TLDR: 2-3 small containers of quality dried food of different types, and the odd treat, whether live, frozen or freeze dried will only do him good! Old food bad, bin it if you've had it a long time.

We've never used live plants before so wouldn't be sure how to introduce them into out artificial aquarium but that's a good tip

There's no special tips for adding live plants, you don't even need to remove any of the fake ones, just look for some plants that are in the beginners/easy to care for section, and add them to the tank! Floating plants and many stem plants don't even need to be planted. Can literally just throw them in the tank, and let them do their thing.


Live plants help to improve water quality too, sucking up ammonia that the fish produce, and fish interact with them in ways they just don't do with fake ones. Once you've converted to live plants, you'll never go back!

What are your water parameters and how often do you do water changes/how much each time?

Seconding the request for water test results. What brand of tester do you have and what are the results in numbers?

 

[Katewills4]

The water level in the photo is very low, is that because of the shop assistant's daft advice that the betta is unhappy that the tank is too big? Can the tank be filled right to the top? Ignore that advice about the tank being too big... that's not a problem, and you're finding out what we all find out eventually- that many fish store employees don't know what they're doing, and some give really bad advice! Either because they want to sell you a product, or pretend they know what your issue is because they don't want to admit that they don't know the answer. Always take advice from any fish store (or any forum/group/FB chat/other hobbyist for that matter) with a pinch of salt, and do your own research first

Make sure the food you have is still okay... fish food stays good for a while, but any containers of food I've had for longer than 3 months, I throw out. Fish foods contain fish oils, insects etc which can go rancid, and though it keeps a long time, it doesn't keep forever. He might have some nutritional deficiency if his diet has been limited to one brand of food and bloodworms, sure. Feeding 3-4 types of food so he has a variety gives him the best chance to get everything he needs. Bloodworms are a great treat, but limit them to once a week or so, since they're quite fatty. Think of it as his Friday pizza night blowout treat. You can get a variety of frozen foods that make a great treat and keep well. Something like mysis shrimp will still be a great treat to him, but healthier


TLDR: 2-3 small containers of quality dried food of different types, and the odd treat, whether live, frozen or freeze dried will only do him good! Old food bad, bin it if you've had it a long time.



There's no special tips for adding live plants, you don't even need to remove any of the fake ones, just look for some plants that are in the beginners/easy to care for section, and add them to the tank! Floating plants and many stem plants don't even need to be planted. Can literally just throw them in the tank, and let them do their thing.


Live plants help to improve water quality too, sucking up ammonia that the fish produce, and fish interact with them in ways they just don't do with fake ones. Once you've converted to live plants, you'll never go back!


Seconding the request for water test results. What brand of tester do you have and what are the results in numbers?

Ah sorry I'm just in the process of topping it up now. It's never usually that low but we recently did a water change.
So we use tetra 6 in 1 test strip dip sticks, I know not the most reliable but nitrates usually around 10-25. Nitrites 0, GH 8, KH 6, pH 7.2, chlorine 0. We have a separate API ammonia test kit which says 0. We'll definitely look into getting other foods for him, we weren't keen on getting fresh live foods for him regularly as expensive I'd love to get a couple others that he can have to rotate though. Would a different brand of flakes be ok as well as some frozen shrimp or something as a treat?