Delicate Neons?

[Birdie]

For every book I have read that says "Neon Tetras - what a marvellous fish for a beginner" , I read another thing that says "Beginners! Know your limits! Stay away from Neons"

So which is it? ( It's OK - I know there isn't a simple answer)

I have seen several mentions that they are "delicate" - are they prone to something in particular ( and what is Neon Tetra Disease, please?) or are they just very fussy about their water? Or are they known for popping their clogs for no apparent reason?

This brings me on to my next point....I am aware that they need soft, acidic water. Wouldn't you know it, the water where i live is as hard as nails ( well, pretty hard, anyway) and my tap pH is 7.4. I don't think I should mess with that - obviously because I am a total novice and don't know how - but also I do realise that a *stable* pH is important, and how would I manage that at water change time? Naaaaah, not even going to *think* about going there.

Anyway, I asked the guy in the lfs how Neons do in this area, and would they be OK in the local ( dechlorinated, obviously) water. He assured me that anything they sell has been acclimatised to local conditions and will be fine. Is this correct ? Or is this actually a partial answer to my first question about why Neons are delicate - ie because people keep them in the wrong sort of water. Or wil they be sort-of OK, but never really flourish? Or have they been bred so far away from their native conditions that they really are likely to be thoroughly acclimatised?

Thank you for reading

 

[donna123]

hi,
i was told that in hard water areas to stay away from cardinals ,
anyway all i can tell you is,
we live in a hard water area ive kept neons for 18 months without any problems, ive even seen them spawn, my fist ones were put in an uncycled biorb , before i knew what i was doing, then they went in a 180ltr and ended up in the 260 tank i have today and all doing fine .

 

[nmonks]

The problems with neons and cardinals are not precisely the same, but there is some overlap. As a general piece of advice, I'd suggest staying away from both if you have hard, alkaline water. Yes, they can both survive under such conditions, but neither thrives, and their lifespans tend to be much shorter. In soft, acidic water both these fish can live for 4 years, but in hard, alkaline water there are many, many reports of people having terrible luck with them.

Now, neon tetras are plagued by something called "neon tetra disease" which may be more than one actual pathogen. Regardless, it is very common and the symptoms are unmistakeable: neon loses colour, hides away, stops feeding, then dies. Almost always when one fish gets sick, then some of the others do to, dying off one a month. The pathogen seems to get transmitted most readily when a fish is dead and pecked away at by other fish, so the key thing is to remove and destroy sick fish at the very first sign of trouble. There are no sure-fire cures, short of visiting a vet and using antibiotics. Nothing available in an aquarium shop will work, even stuff labelled as anti-bacterial.

Cardinals are somewhat (but not completely) resistant to neon tetra disease ("NTD") so if you remove sick fish, you can usually nip the problem in the bud. With neon tetras, even if you remove the sick fish, there will be other already sick ones in the batch, and you need to constantly watch for trouble and act accordingly. Quarantining neon tetras (and probably cardinals) makes a lot of sense.

It might be possible to breed NTD-resistant neons and hardwater tolerant neons, but no-one has done this. All commerical breeding is done purely for profit, and the neons are spawned in vast numbers with plentiful use of hormones and antibiotics. So the stuff on sale is cheap but not at all hardy. Wild-caught neons are a better bet, but they're uncommon. Green neons (Paracheirodon simulans) and cardinals are wild-caught, and hence tend to be relatively hardy as well, provided you give them the water chemistry they expect.

Frankly, unless you are prepared to go the soft/acid water route, I'd avoid both neons and cardinals. There are lots of good hardwater alternatives. Celebes rainbowfish, for example, or dwarf rainbowfish, are nice alternatives. X-ray tetras are naturally found in hard water and are extremely hardy. Glassfish are another good alternative for the smaller aquarium, and there are obviously lots of hardwater livebearers and killifish as well. You could even have a school of South American pufferfish! Basically the difference between having fish that like hard water and fish that merely survive in it is like chalk and cheese.

Cheers, Neale

 

[richiej1979]

The problems with neons and cardinals are not precisely the same, but there is some overlap. As a general piece of advice, I'd suggest staying away from both if you have hard, alkaline water. Yes, they can both survive under such conditions, but neither thrives, and their lifespans tend to be much shorter. In soft, acidic water both these fish can live for 4 years, but in hard, alkaline water there are many, many reports of people having terrible luck with them.

Now, neon tetras are plagued by something called "neon tetra disease" which may be more than one actual pathogen. Regardless, it is very common and the symptoms are unmistakeable: neon loses colour, hides away, stops feeding, then dies. Almost always when one fish gets sick, then some of the others do to, dying off one a month. The pathogen seems to get transmitted most readily when a fish is dead and pecked away at by other fish, so the key thing is to remove and destroy sick fish at the very first sign of trouble. There are no sure-fire cures, short of visiting a vet and using antibiotics. Nothing available in an aquarium shop will work, even stuff labelled as anti-bacterial.

Cardinals are somewhat (but not completely) resistant to neon tetra disease ("NTD") so if you remove sick fish, you can usually nip the problem in the bud. With neon tetras, even if you remove the sick fish, there will be other already sick ones in the batch, and you need to constantly watch for trouble and act accordingly. Quarantining neon tetras (and probably cardinals) makes a lot of sense.

It might be possible to breed NTD-resistant neons and hardwater tolerant neons, but no-one has done this. All commerical breeding is done purely for profit, and the neons are spawned in vast numbers with plentiful use of hormones and antibiotics. So the stuff on sale is cheap but not at all hardy. Wild-caught neons are a better bet, but they're uncommon. Green neons (Paracheirodon simulans) and cardinals are wild-caught, and hence tend to be relatively hardy as well, provided you give them the water chemistry they expect.

Frankly, unless you are prepared to go the soft/acid water route, I'd avoid both neons and cardinals. There are lots of good hardwater alternatives. Celebes rainbowfish, for example, or dwarf rainbowfish, are nice alternatives. X-ray tetras are naturally found in hard water and are extremely hardy. Glassfish are another good alternative for the smaller aquarium, and there are obviously lots of hardwater livebearers and killifish as well. You could even have a school of South American pufferfish! Basically the difference between having fish that like hard water and fish that merely survive in it is like chalk and cheese.

Cheers, Neale

Cheers - thhat great info, a bit stuck though as I have 5 in my tank. and I got hard ph 7.5 water.

 

[Birdie]

Thank you very much for your extremely helpful replies. So - it looks like Neons are off the list of possibilites....but now the Dwarf Rainbow fish are definitely on it They are absolutely beautiful - and a far more appropriate idea. Thank you for the suggestion.