Deaths - Oxygen Related?

[sarahandmichael]

Hi all,

We are new to the hobby and i've bought books and followed all advice and instruction very carefully. Set up a 60 litre aquarium and cycled it without fish. Testing the water regularly and reading perfect everytime, adding filter start and doing water changes regularly etc. Added 5 neon tetras to start with which seemed to thrive so we added 5 male guppies last Saturday along with an air pump. We ended up turning the airpump off as it seemed at bit violent for the fish. The fish seemed fine, feeding well and appeared normal but when I got in from work Monday one of the guppies was obviously not well. It seemed to be gasping at the surface and would not come down, within a few hours it died. The next night exactly the same happened. It seems to occur very suddenly and within a couple of hours they're dead. On Wednesday a third guppy appeared to be struggling and after noticing they appeared to be gasping we decided to try the air pump again. The fish seemed to respond and perk back up again! Last night before going to bed I turned the air pump off (we live in an open plan appartment and it's noisy) when we awoke this morning the third guppy we were worried about was dead. I have read through the forums and books and it seems an air pump is not neccessary but it just seems wierd that the deaths seeem to be linked to it?

So my questions:

*Can water have a lack of oxygen in it - if so, what causes this?
*Am I going to have to put up with the noisy air pump - have I just killed my fish by turning it off?

Thanks in advance for your help, regards a very puzzled newbie!

 

[sharkbaitwoohaha]

water tests still ok? do you have live plants in there? if you do, during the day they produce O2 but at night theytake it away so without the air pump at night the O2 level is even lower. its best to have an air pump on at night IMO and off during the day if at all. i have easy to grow plants and an air pump.
are the neons ok? are the guppies just affected.

 

[rossyt99]

Hello and welcome> do you have a filter in the tank, running constantly?? (The fish need surface water movement)

If you have a filter, it may be a disease in Guppies.

(P.s; Is your Temperature at normal level?> just a thought as too high could be cause.)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

as it's a new uncycled tank (contrary to what it say's on the bottle and the manufacturers instructions the 'filter start' does not adequatley prepare the tank for fish) and both neons and guppies are known to be fairly weak and not ideal fish to survive cycling I would suspect that the cycle is causing the deaths not the air pump or lack thereof.

Can you let us know what test kit you are using (brand and product name) and what your levels are currently reading as?

 

[pastabake]

You would think that if it is a water problem the Neons would have died because they are a bit of a pathetic fish ... they both share similar water temps 20-27C ... temperature may be a problem because at higher temps water carries less oxygen ... I wonder if they were fine before adding to the tank ... or if the difference between the previous tank temp and the new one was enough to cause them stress?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, exactly what I was going to ask! Sara & Michael, welcome to TFF and I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.

Once we can focus in on your exact type and brand of test kit, we can decide whether to trust the numbers it is giving and examine the test results for things like Ammonia and Nitrite. We can take a look at how these compare to the same tests performed on your tap water. Do you have your tap water readings recorded?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[WILDER]

I agree need to rule out bad water quality first.
Gasping can be bad water quality,lack of 02, parasites, to bacterial.

 

[DarkEntity]

simply sounds like the tank wasnt cycled and thats the background cause for everything else

 

[waterdrop]

simply sounds like the tank wasnt cycled and thats the background cause for everything else

Yeah DE, I agree. That's where MW and I were headed with it - I think its just not cycled at all.

 

[sarahandmichael]

Hi guys,

First of all thanks for your quick responses!

The first tests were from th New Aquarium Start Up Kit from Interpet, I am now using API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) 5 in 1 test strips. Readings have consistently been:

General Hardness: 120ppm
Carbonate Hardness: 120ppm
PH: 7.0
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

Water Temp: 26-27oC
Filter: Elite Stingray 15

I know what you're saying about the cycling but the readings seem ok according to the leaflet in the kit!?!

Shall I turn the temp down slowly?

The tetras still seem absolutely fine!

The guppies were carefully selected from 3 different tanks and introduced over 45 mins to the aquarium (I always add extra time to the instructions).

I have one live plant which seems to be thriving.

I am very upset that the filter start has misled me

I don't know about testing the tap water? I do obviously add the conditioner to the water.

Further advice very gratefully received, thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

I personally am not familiar with the Interpet test kit. I believe I remember reading several criticisms of it here in the forum. Is it tablet based? I believe the its pH test was ok but the other important ones were questioned and users ended up switching to liquid reagent based tests.

The 5 in 1 test strips are even worse, not worth the paper they are printed on (I, like many others, have a pack of them now sitting on the shelf but should have just tossed them.) API is the right company, but you need to find the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. This or the Hagen one or I think there is a Red Sea freshwater one that are recommended often here. I, like many others here, use and like the API one. The only reason I go on about this is that these tests may very well find a problem with your ammonia or nitrite as they are more sensitive and the situation you are describing often ends up being one of these two toxins despite everyone being sure it is something else.

Of course, pasta is right and it is interesting that the neons have done ok. Perhaps something really was wrong with the guppies...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[WILDER]

I agree the test strip cards are not that accurate.
I would take a sample of your water to the lfs and tell them to write the readings down for you.
Any fish showing signs of flicking and rubbing.
Check the fish gills over to see if the look red and inflamed, or pale with excess mucas.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah the test strips are useless, also there's no ammonia test, this is the most likely one to be way off at this point in the tanks life so it's perfectly feasible that everything else is fine but ammonia is sky high and is causing the deaths.

need a decent liquid test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and preferably pH as well. API or the Nutrafin one's are best

 

[sarahandmichael]

That's fab guys, thanks for your help. Looks like I made a few school boy errors, but ya live and learn eh!!! I'll buy one of those kits tomorrow.

Just one more query, is the temp ok? Also I've had to lower the heater to 24oC to get a reading of 26-27oC on the stick on thermometer, is this normal, what should I trust? Should I get another thermometer?

Is there anything else I should be adding to the water apart from the tap water conditioner and filter start?

This might be a stupid question but is there a way of testing the oxygen in the water?

Thanks again everyone, you've been a huge help! Just wish the booklets would just give it to you straight in the first place!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah trust the thermometer not the heater, heaters are notoriously unreliable.

we all made mistakes starting out, you're in the right place, asking for help and taking our advice. keep going like that and you'll be well on the right track in no time.

until you get decent tests you should assume the worst, that the tank is cycling. and should be doing 20% daily water changes

this topic should explain some more about cycling for you http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/