Death death death

[james80000]

Hi,
I bought a new 3-foot tank about 6 weeks ago. We set it up, cleaned the gravel, used an appropriate filter and heater and kept it at 77degrees F for one week. We then went and bought 1 upside down catfish, 3 golden barbs, 3 black widows, 3 cardinal tetras and 3 dalmation mollys. After a week approx, 1 cardinal tetra, 2 dalmation mollys and one black widow all died (on the same day!). However we then were told that the pH was too high and bought a pH leveller to 7. Everything seemed fine for a week and so we decided to add more fish. Then the trouble began! We then put in 3 koi Anglefish, A siamese fighting fish (male), 2 tiger barbs, 2 guppys, and 2 neon tetras. This was probably a bit stupid but the following day, we bought 3 swordtails, 1 branded leoporinus, 3 green tiger barbs and 2 more dalmation mollys (to replace the others). The 2 guppys died immediately (by the following morning). After this, we noticed that one of the tiger barbs were nipping the other fishes tails. He killed the siamese fighting fish, all of the dalmation mollys and a couple of swordtails. So we then took out both tiger barbs and flushed them away. However all of the tetras but one vanished, 2 angelfish savaged, and many more of the fish have died from stress (we think) but pecked at as well. There are now only the catfish, the leoporinus, 1 neon tetra, all 3 golden barbs, 2 black widows, an angelfish and a small struggling green tiger barb. Please HELP!!!!!! When we start again (which is inevitable) we would like to do it properly. Advice needed about quantities of fish and compatability. No aggressive ones but still nice looking!
Thanks a lot,
James
ps: what is the nitogen cycle and ammonia levels and what effect would they have-i have no idea so please explain in simple terms.

 

[Dragonslair]

Hi James
First of all welcome to this site. I'm sure the rest of the gang wherever they are will welcome you with open arms. :laugh: The problem you have experienced you are not alone in. I have suffered the same fate, maybe not in such a big way but nevertheless suffered. I have learned mainly from all the gang on this site what my main problem was. I was too eager! :what: I did exactly what you did, I bought fish..several, and after a week of running the tank free of anything decided to put in Biocultures(friendly bacteria) and then add fish. Bad idea. You see James the filter needs to cycle, in plain english you need to let the good bacteria build up in the system.(at least a month) What you have done is SUDDENLY overloaded the system with fish. The filter/bacteria etc.ect just couldn't handle it. Changing PH could also have given them a PH shock especially if the Ifs water was different.
What you have done will have been done by us all at one time or another. I apperciate it would have been an expensive mistake, but take heart we've all been there and got the T-shirt. You asked about ammonia. All fish excrete ammonia as a waste product from their gills.(its like us having a wee) So as well as solids the fish produce they produce an iinvisable deadly chemical called ammonia.Now the only way this toxin is got rid of is either by partial water changes which only dilutes it or via established plants(nitrogen cycle) or by a mature filter. If you need to know about the Nitrogen cycle-I'll dig through one of my wifes plant books and e-mail you details. Unfortunately at this moment in time you have none of these at your disposal, so the fishes you have are dying on several counts. Toxic and PH shock and possibly raw water syndrome. You didn't say wheather or not you put any additives into you water to help stabilise raw water syndrome. Where did your water come from, tap or bottled? I'm sure my other learned friends will have a lot of input into this subject. Don't give up though- it is worth perserverance. You'll enjoy it. Remember we are here to help if we can. Good Luck.

 

[Dragonslair]

By the way James, you don't tell us where you are from?
Before Adeyc takes the P*** out of me. I'm looking for people from the NE to join. Are you from the NE of england? :laugh:

 

[james80000]

I add a dose of something called easybalance to the tank every week. It says that it maintains the ecological balance of the tank and water changes only need t be done every six months. What about nitrate levels and nitrite, hard water etc. We have no live plants, just plastic ones, is it advisable to have them? How would i start again completely properly?!?!?
     Thanks,
       James
ps no i live in the west of ireland-Galway is the name of the place

 

[Dragonslair]

Lovely place Galway. Would love to visit there one day. Seen many a photos. You should complete the control panel with your details so we all know where you're from. Don't hide under a bushel. :laugh: As to Nitrites/nitrates and water changes. These are subjects within themselves. My other friends..oops did I say friends.lol :laugh: :laugh: are a lot more qualified to tell you about that. However it is sufficient to say you should do partial water changes every 2 weeks or so. You don't say how much water the tank contains? It's not particurarly the size of the tank that matters to the inhabitants it is the surface area. Nitrates/Nitrates are part of the Nitrogen cycle. I would personally add some living plants along with your plastic ones. They look better and less likely to have the dreaded algae growing on them. Living plants would also start the N2o cycle off.

 

[Dragonslair]

James.
Are you an absolute beginner? If you want some beginners guide info. try ringing 0845 677 6770. They are the Aquarian
helpline. (not that I'm promoting or endorsing their materials) I know when I rang and asked for help they sent me a beginners guide. Basic stuff but informative.

 

[Alien Anna]

After this, we noticed that one of the tiger barbs were nipping the other fishes tails. He killed the siamese fighting fish, all of the dalmation mollys and a couple of swordtails. So we then took out both tiger barbs and flushed them away.

James,
I prepared a long, full response to your query until I got to this line. You killed two live fish in the most horrible and cruel way, their only crime being to behave in the way that is natural to them.

Tiger Barbs, if you spent even 5 seconds reading up about them, are territorial and aggressive. They killed those other fish because they were fighting to mark a territory in a horribly over-crowded and poisoned tank. What is more, they need to be kept in a school or they become stressed, and stressed tiger barbs are aggressive tiger barbs. Most books recommend they be kept in a species aquarium or with fish that they can't hurt, like a pleco. Your tiger barbs weren't evil, they were just trying to survive in the way they evolved to survive.

You put them in a situation they could not tolerate, and then flushed them down the toilet. Did you think for one second what they'd go through after that? Burned by chemicals, choked by sewerage that would block their gills, unable to reach the surface and unable to swim away. A fish, being cold blooded, can take hours to die in those circumstances.

I'll assume you were ignorant and didn't mean to cause such suffering, but until you learn that these are living creatures I don't feel very well disposed to helping you.

 

[Dragonslair]

Oh comon' Anna,
I know you feel well grieved and you have a good right to. This lad is obviously inexperienced. I don't know his age as he doesn't say, but by the sounds of it he is young too. Give him a break. He's asking for our help and that's what we are here to do, hopefully. It is cruel to dispose of fish they way he has,but you can't tell me he is alone. I know it doesn't excuse him or make matters right. Its just life! Far worse things happen at sea.
Give him another chance. We are all here to learn.

 

[Dragonslair]

James,
What I would personally start off with especially if you're young and inexperienced are "community" tank fish. Your Ifs will/should advise you depending on your experience. Don't buy too many at first. Max of 6 average size to start off with until your filter matures. You don't say what type of filter you have. If it has sponge inside, never wash the sponge out under tap water, the chlorine will kill the friendly bacteria. Always save some of your partial change tankwater to rinse the sponge out. That way the bacteria are familiar with the water and there's no chlorine contamination ,hopefully.

 

[ostrow]

Yeah, well I ain't old, I have a nice peaceful community tank of platies and dalmation mollies, and, sorry Alien but I had to remove a Dalmation Molly for the same reason -- attacking and killing platies. Nobody every told me Mollies were so aggressive ... only AFTER I told them this one was.

Before that, it was, "oh, mollies and platies are great together."

Hmpf.

Don't like to kill the fish, but I have room for one (1) tank and I don't want a tank full of Mollies. Save the Platies was my motto on this one.

Seems in any tank environment a fish can get territorial and that can be a problem ... at least, that's my observation.

 

[wlbadger]

You need to buy a book on begining fish keeping. It is going to save you a lot of time and money in the long run. It is better to read something and know it then to ask a fish store because their main priority is often just to sell fish. If you still have fish in the tank, read about them specificly. You will need to restock their schools or else you will have more problems and if you have non compatible fish you may try to trade them in for something more peaceful.

 

[Dragonslair]

If you don't want to go through the expense of buying a book until you know what you want, you can alway try your local library first. It's free!! Furthermore the index on this site is full of useful info on fish. Well worth a browse around.

 

[Duncan]

Hi James,

Nice place Galway I've had the New Tank Syndrone as well, my sister as well (even though I told her to wait a month - she didn't). Everything is new and needs a chance to get a wee bit dirty - in a good sense.

Some petshops don't tell you that you need to leave the aquarium running a month or so before adding fish. Test the water regularly for nitrites and ammonia. At the moment you'll probably need to do a daily partial water change - I had to do that and my nitrites were very high, even after a water change. My sister has to do a daily water change as her nitrites are very high too.

I've got live plants in my aquarium, and they are thriving very well as my nitrates are high but low enough to be safe. You might encounter oxygen starvation - fish will gulp air near the surface, that's when algae takes over - an algae eater will help there.

Tiger barbs - they say if you buy six there will be no trouble because they are busy watching each other to trouble any other fish.

Your aquarium will settle down, and then you'll have a pleasure and addiction to watching the wee things Its best stocking the aquarium slowly with fish, rather than an instant population. It gives the aquarium a better chance at adopting to the new arrivals.

Duncan

 

[Dragonslair]

James,
Duncan has given you some good advice here, listen to him, I did and have not regretted it. You don't say, but do you have any test kits at all? Test kit of PH, Nitrates, Ammonia and hardness. If all this sounds daunting and foreign to you just shout out and well all assist if we can. :laugh:

 

[Davy Reynolds]

Hi James, welcome to the forum. Look slike we can give you lots of help for this great hobby.

I'll try answer all your questions below and I might be a bit short on info, but it'll be because I'll be here all night unless I do.

Firstly. They tell you to go out and buy books, don't be daft just now. Everyone forgets this forum is linked to a free website with information for this hooby.
setting up your tank additional reading click here. Now to setup your tank it sounds like you were doing fine, but things went wrong when you added the fish in such large numbers. The cycle as need to applyied here then you can add a small number of fish, then a few more, a few more, etc. Thus the waste the fish give off will slowly rise and not harm the tanks cycle ability.

Cycle I've not accually got any material about this so heres a basic tale about it.
Fish give off ammonia (as do everyone) this ammonia can be toxic in the right conditions. To turn this ammonia into harmless properties you need the filter. The filter media houses the benifical bacteria which turn the ammoina into nitrate then into nitrite then into normal good levels. When your tank starts off these diffrent processes there is dangerous spikes, where the levels go beyond acceptable levels. So no fish can be added this is why we say not to add fish until after this process. Once your tank has cycled the process always continues but as the tankis not setup, the process is not dangerous. Unless you make major changes to the tank. i.e. adding to many fish, renewing the media, 100% water changes etc.

The Chems
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. Levels should be zero. In an ideal world.

Easybalance
I would not recomend this product because you know so little about the hobby. This product makes you think you can add it and leave the tank for 6 months.
Don't add this product, do water changes every two weeks, of 20% (this means remove 20% of the water and add tap water which has been left to rise to room tempature and has a de-chlorenator added. Heres an article for more reading Click here

Fish
Okay you've had your problems with them and you now know not to flush them. Most shops will take back any fish that are causing problems. Just put them in a container and take them back the next time.
Bards are fin nippers so should not be put with fish that have long fins. Angels need to be in a pair or over a group of 6. Plus they like neons as a snack. Our fish index has a list of fish for you to check the stats. I'll not tell you what fish to get cos I dont know whats is your local fish shop. The best idea would be to go and look at the fish. Then come back to us with the name of them and we'll help you to know if there suitable or not.

High pH
Using chemicals can be a long and hard way to solve your problem. An article on hard water will help. clcik here A peat filter, some bogwood can lower your ph a bit.

Number of fish
The number of fish you can have in your tank usually depends this formula. 1inch (body mass) of fish to on gallon. So if you have 40 gallon you can have 40 one inch fish, or 20 two inch fish etc.

Now I think I've gone through most of it. If you need more info on anything just say