Dead Tang (and Other Questions)

[BDP]

Hi all - I'm new to the forum so I apologize if this is the wrong place or the wrong type of question. I actually have a bunch of stuff to pick your brains about so I figured I'd put it in one post.

I've had a 45 gallon hex corner tank for around 7 years now - Saltwater with live rock. Just recently (around 2 months ago) I switched filters for the first time, from a Tetra carbon filter to a Penguin biowheel. I like the biowheel but I seem to have to change cartridges much more often than in the Tetra (water starts flowing through the overflow and not through the filter after about 2 weeks).

Anyway, I'm an amateur but have had very good success with the tank due to good feeding and regular water changes. I realize this size of this tank does not lend itself to saltwater/marine environments but I love these fish so I want to keep at it.

Tank population for the past 7 years has been the following: 2 yellowtail damsels, 1 striped damsel, 2 percula clownfish, 1 yellow tang, 1 foxface rabbitfish (the star of the tank), and a bunch of live rock. Over the summer I lost one of the percula clowns (after he lived in the tank around 6 years) and just today I lost the tang (after living in the tank around 6 years or so also). I know Tang lifespan is longer than 6 years, so I am a bit concerned I may have some issues with the tank, possibly even due to introducing a new filter recently.

In recent cleanings (since adding the new filter actually) I have noticed, when empying water change buckets, some very small worms in the bottom of the buckets that I am sucking up from the crushed coral. Around an inch in length, brown in color, very thin (wire-thin). I believe this may be an indication I am overfeeding. If this is true, what are the steps I can take to eliminate them? I don't want them to be a bigger problem, and am hopeful their presence did not somehow contribute to the Tang's recent demise.

Sorry if these questions are out of place but I sure would appreciate any help that you can offer. The rest of the fish all seem healthy, colorful and happy, so I am hoping this was just a fluke, but value your opinions! I plan to introduce a new fish in a couple weeks if the tank seems stable but figured I'd ask some experts here first.

Much thanks!

 

[Eversurf]

without consulting any chart it seems to me that your fish aren't compatible. The Yellow tail damsels are well know agressive fish and at an old age they tend to attack other fishes. Did you notice anything like it

What are the result from your water test. Does everything seems ok? Amonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Salt, PH and temp


Get back to us with an update

Have fun!!!

 

[Lynden]

7 years? You don't sound like an amateur to me.

Regarding the Tang's death, it was either a fluke, or the Tang outgrowing his home (they do seem to be sensitive regarding tank size). The tank size I usually recommend for these is 70 gallons for an adult, so this may have been a factor here. Even so; 6 years is long time to have had a single fish, especially for an "amateur". I have not been involved in this hobby for even five years. Your Tang likely lived a long and happy life.

The very small worms may have been an indicator of overfeeding; these and other microfauna will often proliferate in the presence of overabundant food. But I can almost guarantee you that the Tang and Clownfish's death had nothing to do with overfeeding. Especially since you do regular water changes. No worries regarding removing them, either; their numbers are governed by the availability of food and number of predators. They are actually beneficial in most circumstances, since they consume left over food.

What compounds are present within the filter? Charcoal, floss, biomedia? Likely this had not much to do with the Tang's death either.

Feel free to reintroduced another fish; I would, however, recommend against adding another Tang. They generally grow too large for your set up. Look into smaller Gobies, Psuedochromis, Wrasses, Damselfish, Darters, and Blennies.

-Lynden

 

[Triggerobsessed]

Your tank is overstocked, and tangs need more room to swim. same with the foxface. you might have had an ammonia spike on your tank. i would consider buying a larger tank

 

[Lynden]

Your tank is overstocked

I do not agree. 6-7 fish is a perfectly acceptable level of stocking for a 45 gallon tank. I do agree that the Tang or Foxface may not have had the preffered level of swimming space.

you might have had an ammonia spike on your tank

A possibilty, but overwhelmingly unlikely. For one, all the fish would be suffering if this were the case. For two, there needs to be a major event that triggers the ammonia spike. A filter change would be a candidate for this, but I several weeks ago removed a Fluval 404 from my overstocked tank, and the ammonia did not spike in that instance.

Nonetheless, it would be worth it to do a water test, BDP.

-Lynden

 

[BDP]

Thank you all so much for your kind replies. It has been ages since I broke out the water test kit, guilty as charged. Here are the results:

Ammonia read as .5 - 1, just a slight light yellow color to the water in the test tube. This is, I recall, the reading I always got when testing.

Nitrite at 0 as expected.

High range PH at 8.2 just as I wanted.

Here's the alarming test though - Nitrate is very high. If I'm going by the test tube reading properly and my chemicals are still good, the color matches somewhere between 80 and 160. I know Nitrate is tough to battle, but this does seem extremely high to me. What can I do to drop this down other than a bunch of water changes? Is there a chemical I can purchase to help my fish immediately?

What worries me is that the biological filtration may be what raised the nitrates. I was relying on my live rock to do most of the filtration, the new Emperor filter has carbon in the cartridges that I have been replacing around every 3 weeks. Box says "contains black diamond premium activated carbon". By removing the old Tetra filter and bio-foam and introducing this new filtration, have I doomed my tank???

I'd love to know what I can do to fix this ASAP, your suggestions are welcome!

Thanks all!

BDP

 

[rvdbarnes]

Hi there!

First off i take my hat off to you for the success you've had with your tank so far, nice one!

I am pretty new to the salty dark side but pretty experienced in freshwater tropical, KOI etc.
Always learning though.

From your test results it looks like the pH and Nitrite are

Im a bit concerned by your ammonia and nitrate readings though.
The ammonia reading sounds more like 0 to 0.25 if its anything like my test kit(API), yellow being 0 and then getting more greener as it gets higher ammonia conc.

I suppose before we get too concerned, is your test kit perhaps past its best and maybe giving false readings? i remember you mentioned you'd not used it in a while?

Secondly, have you tested your source water that you use for water changes? has it been through an R/O unit.
We often get nitrate in our water supply where i live.

Personally if I ever get a poor reading in my tank, i prefer to try and solve it with increased W/C's before i start adding extra additives to the water?

Keep us posted and good luck with getting things back on the straight and narrow!

Lee

 

[Lynden]

Nitrate test kits are rediculously unreliable. My tank has read >120 PPM since the day I restarted it.

 

[Eversurf]

You might be able to find some Nitrate remove cartridge for your filter....did you look into that?

 

[JaminRat]

Sorry to echo the above but I would suspect your test kit as being faulty if you have been doing regular water changes. I'd take a sample to the lfs and have them test it.

 

[BDP]

Ok here's the latest.

I changed out around 20 gallons last night. I ran a test on the nitrate on the tap water (after using my tap water conditioner and adding salt). No nitrate! So my kit seems to be working quite well. It read what I had suspected.

So, it looks like the high nitrate score on the water in my tank is indeed reading right. I guess changing out 10 gallons every 2 weeks just isn't enough for the fish population, either that or I am overfeeding. Or the new filter is adding too much nitrate. Still not sure of the cause.

Guess I will continue to change out 20 gallons every day or every other day until I can see better results. I have been feeding a pinch of flakes at lunch and a cube of emerald entree or marine cuisine (frozen) plus some sea veggies nightly. Is that too much for 7 fish?

 

[Eversurf]

that should be fine. I feed twice a day, 1 pinch of flake, 1 pinch of dried seaweed, 1 cube of brine shrimp or mysis, and some pellets.

they say what ever all the fish can eat in 3 min.

 

[Lynden]

Ahh, but thats what my test kit did too. I would still disregard it's results; though continue on with the water changes.

 

[rvdbarnes]

Yup, i would generally step up your maintenence and see how that goes?

Good luck buddy

 

[Eversurf]

Could it be your brand new filter? Do you have any other methods of filtration?