Dead Gourami - any ideas what killed it?

[robertoi]

Hi all,
here is a picture of my male powder blue gourami (named Marice), who sadly passed away last week.

I'd had him about 5 weeks. I was testing the water every few days for ammonia, nitrite etc and they were all fine. Maurice developed the first sore about 2 weeks ago, after I introduced a catfish into the tank. When I put him in I inadvertently had to put in some of the water from the bag he came in,and I think this is how the disease was introduced to the aquarium. Anyway, I just thought Maurice had bashed himself on something, and cut his face, but it just kept getting worse, the patch on his face eventually kind of burst, which makes me think it was a boil of some sort. When he died he had a big red patch on the side of his face, and had developed two smaller patches, one just behind his gill, and one further down on the side of his body. You can see them fairly clearly in the picture. Before he died he started to lose his appetite (but only a couple of days before), and he used to behave slightly oddly, in that he'd go into one corner of the tank and swim up and down for ages (the female has now started doing this for some reason!).

It now looks as though my female dwarf gourami has got the same thing, she first developed a kind if lump on the ridge of her back about half way down her dorsal fin. The lump kind of transects her body, so it sticks out a little on both sides - the fin is a little rotted away at this point on its length. SHe also has a small patch on the side of her face (same place as Maurice), and a small patch above her eye on the same side which look raw, as if the scales have fallen off. The catfish is as yet showing no ill effects...

I have been treating the tank with Waterlife Myxazin for 3 days now, and so far I havent noticed much of a change in the fish, but she doesnt seem to be getting any worse at least. I have the temperature set at 27 to try and fight the bacteria as recommended by the shop I got the treatment.

I am woried that my tank is now infected with a nasty disease such as tuberculosis or something worse, so I need to find out what it is. Any ideas as to what this disesase might be, and if/ how I can treat it, and hopefully save the female!?

Thanks

NB - The female has now died also

 

[Inchworm]

Hi robertoi

It sounds like your fish have an advanced case of bacterial infection. This is also known as Flavobacterium columnare. It's also very possible that they have secondary infection of Aeromonas, which is quite common. I would treat them for both.

It is most important that your tank be clean and the water have regular partial changes to stop the spread of this disease. It will also help if during treatment you gradually lower the temperature to no more than 24 degrees and increase aeration, if possible, since these things will slow the growth of the bacteria.

For medication, Kanacyn (kanamycin) is often considered the treatment of choice, but it that is not available, Waterlife’s Myxazin or Interpet’s Anti-Fungus and Finrot are recommended, too.

I'm not sure how long the course of treatment with Myxazin lasts, but if you have completed it and plan to repeat it, take the opportunity to do a good tank cleaning in between.

If all else fails, it won't hurt to give MelaFix a try. I have seen good results on Gouramis with this condition.

BTW, how is the catfish, and how are the other fish in your tank?

 

[robertoi]

Hi inchworm,
I ought to mention that since I didnt have time to write a new synopsis of my experiences with the gouramis, I simpoly copied one I had posted on another website a few weeks ago, written before the female died.

I treated with Myxazin for 5 days (recommended course), and after that did not add carbon back to the filter for about 4 days, so it was in the water for 9 days roughly. Im not entirely clear what Myxazin does though to be honest, I assumed it was just a bacteriacide. I am considering whether to use the rest of it on the tank with its current inhabitants (just in case), should be another 5 day course.

When you say clean the tank, do you mean a thorough scrub out (ie bleach or similar), or just a grave clean etc. To me the tank seems quite clean, as its had very few fish in it for its size.

Currently there are 5 neon tetras in the tank, they have only been in for a few days admittedly (I didnt want to see the tank empty any longer), they were introduced about a week and a half since the female gourami died, so I am assuming (hoping!) that whatever bacterial infection was in the water/ fish, has now cleared up to an extent. The catfish is also absolutely fine, he seems to be growing quite quickly too!

 

[rykitten]

Robertoi,

I am having what seems like a very similar experience. And I have catfish as well.
Here is a link to my fish.

Does this look like your fish did?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi rykitten

Let me post a response to your post first, since I read in another thread that you are going to buy medicine at the lfs, on your lunch break. I just don't want you to be confused by the fact that I suggested different medication for what appears to be the same problem.

I diagnosed both your fish with the same condition and recommended the appropriate medication for each. The difference is that since robertoi mentioned using Myxazin I guessed that he was in the UK and suggested medication that I know to be available there.

Since you are in the US, I recommended the medicines that are available here. They are all good products.

 

[robertoi]

Hi rykitten,
yes, it does look kind of similar to what my fish had - although in both cases mine had the ulcerous patches predominantly near their mouths - they also seemed far less happy than yours appear (at least in the pictures!) when the disease progressed to that stage.

Did the patches start off like little pink areas under the scales, then turn white(ish), and then go bright pink afterwards?

 

[rykitten]

When I first noticed the patches were gray. I couldn't tell if it was fungus or not because all the others were nipping at him and I thought the wounds may be from being bullied. But it was a fuzzy grey patch when I first noticed.

I hospitalized him and the gray patches changed to pink (looked like missing scales), then to the red ulcers, back to gray, and finally, he appeared to be healed and back to normal.

It's very strange . . .
Now his ulcers don't look so red anymore. They look white. I'll post a pic.

 

[Carolinesugar]

hiya, to me frm the pix, and close crossreference to a book i have on illnesses, its fish tb. tubculosis (i cnt spel it correctly but hope u no wot i mean)

 

[rykitten]

Have any idea on how to treat this? I'm open to any ideas at this point . . .

I'm treating him now with Maracyn, Maracyn 2 and Melafix.

I thought maybe it was hole in the head disease. I've read that cichlids are very susceptible to this disease.

Anyone know about hole in the head disease???

 

[rykitten]

Oh my gosh - I just found an article on fish TB saying it's contagious to humans. Great!

 

[Inchworm]

Hi rykitten

Please don't panic over this. Fish are like humans in that while there are many horrible diseases they can get, they most often get the flu or a cold. With fish, the most common problems seem to be ich and bacterial infection.

That's why it's usually best to treat it for the most likely problem first. If you don't see any improvement in a few days time, then it might be a good idea to look for other causes.

Meanwhile, is there any sign or change in your gourami?

 

[rykitten]

Hiya Inchworm,

Don't worry about me, I'm not panicking yet.

The Gourami's red ulcer patches now appear to be turning white/gray. It appears that his scales are coming off. It looks better because it's not red anymore, but I don't know if that's good or bad.

His fins aren't clamped and he's eating so that's a good sign.

I had to remove the other Gourami as well. He started the clamped fin thing and everyone was picking on him. He doesn't show any outward physical signs of diseases so I'm just watching him for now.

 

[lucky62]

you could also add a couple of extra water changes as well ,30 percent maybe 2 times a week for a while. as well as treatments . keep the water as close to the same temp as possible . Hole in the head is said to be caused by nitrate build up ,caused by poor maintainance practices . So this may not be the case with you , but extra water changes shouldn't hurt .

 

[Inchworm]

Hi robertoi and rykitten

Do either of you have updates on these fish? I'd sure like to learn if they have been cured.

 

[rykitten]

Hi Inchworm,

No cure yet! I guess it's safe to say he's looking better . . .

His patch on the right side is now colorless, I guess you could say white, although it looks like the scales have fallen off.
His left patch is now dark gray, almost black. That too looks like a patch of missing scales.

I finished the treatment (Maracyn and Maracyn 2), I'm still adding Melafix and doing 30% water changes daily.

I guess I should just keep him isolated and watch him? I'll take and post a few pics on my lunch break.