Dead Bristlenose Catfish.....Help!

[drbrad25]

Disaster! I got home today to discover three of my four bristlenose catfish lifeless on the bottom of the tank.

My tank is only about 3 weeks old but i thought it had cycled completely and my platies seem to be fine (i have 6 in the tank)

I measured the pH with 3 different test kits and of course got three different results (7.6/7.4/7.3). There was no ammonia or nitrite (although the kit hasn't shown any ammonia or nitrite since buying the test kit about 2 weeks ago and i've measured about every 3 days).

The catfish were only added about 3 days ago. The only thing i can think went wrong is that everytime i added an algae pellet for the catfish, the platies would eat it so is starvation possible?

The only thing i changed in my tank since getting the catfish is i added a bredding net to the side of my tank to look after some platy fry that had been born. I noticed today that the water on top of the breeding was looking a bit mucky (not like the rest of the tanks water) so to be safe i removed the breeding net and let the fry run free (they were a reasonable size to fend for themselves). The net itself actually looked quite dirty (lots of red muck on the side) Thought it might be leftover food that had polluted the net so it was probably best to remove it anyway.

Anyway, any ideas as to what most likely went wrong? I don't want my last one to die.

It's a 50 gallon tank.
My differential diagnoses are:
-starvation
-tank pollution (due to ineffective test kits)


Thanks,
Brad

 

[Lithril]

Okies have you got any aeration in the tank? Definately recheck the ammonia and nitrites, these tend to be more concentrated at the bottom of the tank so the bottom feeders get affected first. Wouldn't have thought it would be food, most fish can go longer than 3 days, usually if I'm adding algae tablets I do it after lights out as plecos are nocternal.

 

[MAM]

out of curiosity, did you use any chemicals other than good old ammonia to cycle? have you put anything like amquel in the tank? some of these chemicals can actually give you false postives with certain test kits......................

 

[drbrad25]

Unfortunately i didn't use fishless cycling to cycle my tank. I trusted my LFS and they told me if use a product called Eco-start which has all the bacteria in it, then add fish a few days later and i wouldn't have any problems. So i did that.

I tested my water again today (with water from the bottom of the tank as suggested) and i'm still getting readings of zero for both ammonia and nitrite. I did a 25% water change anyway to be safe. I thought the test kit must be dodgy so i added a bit of ammonia to water in a bucket and tested it but it worked fine so i'm guessing it's accurate. I haven't added anything that could disguise the readings as far as i'm aware, unless there's something in that eco-start stuff. It did make my tank go cloudy for a day or two. The only other things i've added are aquaplus to remove chlorine, etc. and showmaster water conditioner (which is aquarium salt). Oh and i do sometimes add florena aquarium plant fertiliser. If the test kits accurate then it basically means the whole time i've had fish i haven't had a spike in ammonia or nitrite (maybe that eco-start stuff did work).

My last catfish died today unfortunately and my platies aren't looking happy. The way my filter works is it sucks water out and trickles it over the filter bed and comes back in via an outlet on the other side. See the photo:

I've noticed that the platies are swimming right where the water from the filter returns. This is where the water is most agitated so maybe your idea about not enough air is correct. I feel bad for asphixiating my poor catfish to death if thats what happened! I've got lots of plants and i thought the way my filter works would give enough oxygen.

What do you recommend to increased the amount of dissolved O2. Air stone?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[Lithril]

K think I've seen your problem, plecos and cories are very intolerable of salt in the tank, that'll kill them off very quickly. Have a look in the catfish cradle section of the forum there is a pinned section to do with plecos. You're going to need to take out your remaining pleco and either take him back to the lfs for the moment or put him in another tank if you've got one.

 

[carppy]

sorry to hear about your catfish... yes an airstone will help. I don't know that much about catfish to be honest..I came here initially for catfish help. As for helping with your platties..what symptoms do they have besides clamped fins...swimming near the top can mean alot of things. Water temp could be too high, lack of oxygen, polution in the tank bottom. with platty you should only feed what they'll eat in 15 minutes. What is the water turnover from your filter?

 

[drbrad25]

That explains it! Thakyou! I only realised i was adding salt today when i looked up on the internet what showmaster water conditioner actually did (it doesn't say it's salt on the container). So i guess what i'll do tomorrow is do another large water change (this time with only using aqua plus) and keep doing that for a couple of weeks until i'm happy that i've got rid of all the salt.
I didn't realise i was inadvertantly turning my freshwater aquarium into a saltwater aquarium!
Could too much salt be upsetting my platies aswell? Or do you think that's an oxygen thing?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[Lithril]

I think platys can actually cope with a small amount of salt so not sure on that one, if you're worried about oxygen buy a cheap air pump and drop an attached airstone into the tank, either that or put more live plants in, airstone is a much quicker remedy though.

 

[drbrad25]

Hey everyone, thanks for your advice! Now for an update. As you know, all my catfish unfortunately died. Now i assumed that it was because i was adding "Showmaster Water Conditioner" which i assumed was aqaurium salt as it's little blue crystals and after reading on the net, most aquarium salt comes in crystals. However, i'm not sure it is aquarium salt, in fact i have no idea what it is! It just says on the container that 1 teaspoon should be added with every 10 Litres of water and whenever water changes are done (which i'd been doing). It also says it for freshwater tropical and goldfish. Anyway, i'm getting off the topic.

Unfortunately today, just before my big uni exam i discovered one of my favourtie platies had died Which unfortunately upset me before my exam. I looked carefully at them and they are covered in white spot! Also there tail fins appear to be rotting away, poor things! What i thought might have brought this on is that i did about a 40% water change yesterday (without using the crystals) and i'm worried i might have really stuffed up the water chemistry. I thought i should do this cause i thought i was basically turning my aquarium into a saltwater aquarium and i didn't want that.

I measured water chemistry, again no ammonia or nitrites. Ph and stuff (KH, DH, etc.) was same as usual.

I was planning on letting the tank settle for the next few weeks and seeing what happens but my mum wanted to cheer me up and when i got home, i discovered she suprised me with nine neon tetras added to the tank (which is really sweet but not the ideal time to be adding more fish to my tank).

Basically what i'm hoping for is some advice as to what to do. How should i treat the ich (i've read that turning up the temperature is the best as the medication can be as bad as the disease)? If it wasn't salt that i've been adding to aquarium what could it be? Mum said she asked at the fish store when she was there and that he was an incompetent moron and he said it was just water conditioner (congratulations to him, he can read a label). What exactly should i do my tap water before i do water changes (i've been using just aquaplus for the last change i did)?

Thanks!

 

[Lithril]

I use waterlife water conditioner which removes chlorine and chloramine, just mix it into the water before adding it to the tank. Depending on what you can get maracyn is meant to do a good white spot treament also Tetra White Spot plus, I'm trying waterlife Protozin at the moment but on second lot of treatment, if this doesn't work I'll try the Tetra option. Temperature needs to be bout 82-83 as Ich can't survive at this temperature.

 

[carppy]

I either use Prime water conditioner..removes clorine cloramine nitrates and amonia or I use stress coat water conditioner which removes clorine and cloramines and it contains stuff to help repair damage to flesh and fins and it replaces the slime coating(good stuff for sickly fish) Turning up the heat in your tank will definitely help, please be advised that turning the tank temp up decreases the amount of oxygen in your tank it doesn't sound like you have a large fish population so you should be safe in this department. Ich sets in when your water temperature fluctuates you should keep it at the same temp at all times.

uh don't put anymore little guys in your tank untill its all cured, I know your mom was tryin to make you feel better, but aren't you gonna feel like crap if those little guys are sick or dead tomorrow morning

 

[drbrad25]

My tank is now being termed the "texas aquarium masacre" by my friends who i've told my fish dramas to. I lost another two platies today and one of the neons. It's all very puzzling and frustrating! There's only one platy left now and 8 neons.

I think it was the ich that got to the platies. I turned up the heat to 82 but i think it was too late. The two that died were completely covered in white spot, would only swim near the top and their fins were almost gone. Poor things! The last platy isn't completely well but i think is getting better. As for what killed that lone neon, i have no idea, the other eight seem fine. I love the way they school together!

By the way, how long can i safely leaved my heat turned with out adversely affecting the remaining fish (i want to make sure the ich is completely gone).

I'm still puzzled as to what exactly went on that killed so many fish! Is it possible when i did that really big water change after the catfish died, i screwed things up? The only thing that was different about that water change to different ones was that about 4 of the litres (1 gallon) of the water i changed was rain water (we're under quite strict water restrictions here due to a major drought so i thought i'd be a water saver). It was mixed with the tap water and i still treated it with aquaplus (might convert to stresszyme as it seems everyone here is a big fan of it). I can't imagine 1 gallon of rainwater added to a 50 gallon tank would make a huge difference. Just to be sure though, i'll never use it again.

Oh, and i'm still getting zero for ammonia and nitrite. I decided not to go for the airstone cause i think the reason the fish were at the surface was because of the ich affecting the gills, and i don't want to dissipate the CO2 and affect my plants.

As updates occur, i'll keep you informed, thanks for your advice!

Brad

 

[yhbae]

If you are going to continue with ich treatment using high temp, you need to push the temp higher, to 87F or so. At 82F, you are providng the perfect environment for ich to spread at the maximum efficiency!

In my case, I left the tank (6 species, 20 fishes) running at 87F for two full weeks, and I never detected any sign of any fishes being stressed, nor any casualties. BUT I started the treatment before I even saw a single dot of ich on any of the fishes - when I saw them "flash", I cranked up the temp, and few days later, every fish was covered with ich, which were gone in about a week.

I was surprized how well the fishes handled the high temp, if I didn't have the thermometer, I wouldn't have been able to tell the temp was higher than normal just by observing the fishes...

By the way, I too have read the article that mentions how bad the high temp treatment is without medication. Once I had some confirmation from people who actually tried this and worked for them, I tried it. This is what I am going to do for all ich treatments in the future...

 

[drbrad25]

Thanks, i just cranked up the temp to 87 then. Hopefully that gets rid of the nasty parasite! I've noticed the neons are starting to get little white spots now, the platy however is almost clear (hooray!).

What did you mean by when you saw them "flash"? Is that an early sign of ich?

Hopefully after a couple of weeks, everything will be back to normal and i can put some more fish back in. Might get some guppies this time or some dwarf loaches to get rid of the snails which are driving me insane. One of the ones i picked out was almost the size of my neons! Getting fat of my poor plants.

Also, with the water changes, do any of you let the water sit for a day or so, cause i've read that's good to do?

 

[yhbae]

"Flash" means they rub their side bodies against some hard objects such as woods or stones (sometimes even leaves). When I observed it for the first time, I thought it was cool, until I realized many of them were doing it across different species! I quickly posted that behaviour, and apparently they do it because early signs of ich gives fishes irritation on their skins, so they are trying to "scratch" their bodies... This happened couple of days before any sign of white dots...

I always let water sit indoor for at least 24 hours not for any other reason than to let O2/CO2 level equilibrize with the air. My tap must come with less CO2 than usual, since pH is quite a bit higher than the water that has been sitting for 24 hours. (Goes from 7.8 down to 7.2). Another reason is to raise the temperature - here in Canada, the cold water can get pretty cold in the winter! I don't want to boil the kettle 20 times just to do one water change, and I'm cheap so I don't want to waste hot water...