Cycling questions

[DaveJH]

Hey guys

I'm on day 7 of my fishless cycle. Im using ammonia & began with 4ppm. I've not seen any change yet in ammonia levels dropping. Should they have dropped by now? I have a large air stone running on my pump & my temp is 82 degrees. Heater doesnt seem to go higher than that. 2 members from here (Byron & Sue) kindly worked out my dh for me & said it is 1.6dh & 29ppm. So I have very soft water, which I believe can slow the cycle dow. Am I right in thinking that?
I have the JBL combi test kit but can't get my head around the kh test in there. I might go & buy a seperate kit by API & see if its easier to figure out.
Really new to fish keeping so trying my best to research but the info on the internet seems quite varied & confuses me sometimes. I've been testing my ammonia with my API kit every day. My ph is 6.4 straight out of the tap, however, I tested it last night & it is now reading between 7.6 - 8.0. Am I right to assume this raise is due to the ammonia in my tank?

I have lots more questions but cant think off the top of my head.

 

[Essjay]

When I cycled a tank with ammonia a few years ago it took 3 weeks for the ammonia to drop. You low KH will not help as the bacteria we need to grow need inorganic carbon - carbonate which is what KH measures - to grow properly. My tap water has a KH of 3 dH, and back when I did my cycle, the advice was to add bicarbonate of soda during cycling, but there are better ways. You could try adding some source of calcium carbonate - limestone, coral, etc - to raise the KH during cycling. Once the cycle is finished you will do a very large water change which will remove the calcium carbonate from the water.

Have you found the cycling method on here? http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/ This recommends adding no more than 3 ppm ammonia. Once your ammonia starts to fall, follow the method in that link - with low KH you would probably suffer a pH crash if you use more ammonia that is necessary - nitrite and nitrate that build up during the cycle are acidic.

 

[DaveJH]

Unfortunately I hadnt found that post on this forum before I'd added ammonia to 4ppm.

Ok, so I could look for some limestone. Will I only be using that for the cycle, and removing it when its ready for fish? Or should I keep it in there? Does it need to be a huge peice of limestone or small - like, does that make a difference? And if I am best keeping it in there, will that depreciate over time or will it continue to do its job? Once i get to the point of doing my big water change, will the replaced water then affect the kh again?

From here on in, I will follow the instructions from that link.
Thanks for your help & sorry for bombarding you with questions

 

[Essjay]

If you could find any, the best thing would be a bag of crushed dolomite as that also contains magnesium as well as calcium, and GH is a measure of calcium, magnesium and trace amounts of other metals.

You could leave a small amount of whatever you manage to source in the tank permanently (in the filter is a good place for a bag of crushed dolomite, coral etc) as it won't increase GH and KH by very much. But if you don't want to do this, when you do the big water change and refill with tap water, it will remove all the calcium etc that has dissolved from the rock and you'll be able to do water changes when you have fish without risking changing the water parameters too much.
I know that Byron has even lower hardness than you, so he should be able to advise you better than me once the tank has cycled.

 

[DaveJH]

Right, so Im JUST using it for the cycle then? Is that what you mean by doing the water changes without risking the fish?
I've just ordered an API gh/kh kit off Amazon, so thatll be here by Friday. Ill go out tomorrow to the lfs & get something to help raise the kh.

Now Im following the instructions from the cycle sticky on here, it says at day 7 I should now be measuring my ammo levels every 3 days - so should I DEFINETLY do that, or will it be no harm still testing every day? I kinda look forward to coming home every day & testing the water haha

Yea, I could really do with some advice from Byron too as I know he has lower gh than me. Plus Id like his views on the right fish for my parameters & as a beginner

 

[DaveJH]

Oh, also forgot to mention. My tank has a built in 3 way filter system in the back section of the hood & cant see where Id fit some kind of kh buffer in there as its all pretty compact & not really any room. Would a peice of limestone in the water be ok, like as an ornament?

 

[Essjay]

A piece of limestone or dolomite would be fine. if you go to a fish shop they will likely try to sell you some chemical - and try to convince you that you will need to add it once you have fish. I need to warn you about shops. Most of the people who work in them will say any rubbish to make a sale. There some good ones but they are few and far between. Never believe anything they say till you've asked on here to check.
The chances are a shop will try to sell you something to raise pH and ignore the hardness aspect. This isn't what you need, just something to increase your KH during cycling. Once cycling is finished, you'll be fine with just tap water.

The cycling method says to test every third day at the beginning. Since you are now at day 7, test on days 10, 13, 16 etc. Once you reach a day where the tests show ammonia under 0.75 and nitrite over 2ppm, move on to the next stage (that is, add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm, then test every second day). Don't worry if you get a bit lost, we can talk you through it. For now, just test every third day till you get those readings.

 

[DaveJH]

Great! I'll go get something tomorrow.

I know EXACTLY what you mean about lfs bad info. At the very start of buying all my gear, I got bottled bacteria pushed on me (which I didnt buy), and also told a fish-in cycle was the best way to go. Never been back there since!
Now Ive found a great little shop near me. I went to buy a pump, air line & air stone. Would have cost me about £30. The shop owner asked why I was buying them & I said it was for surface aggitation ti help my cycle. He was like, listen mate - save your £30 & just drop the water level instead. I was shocked he'd done himself out of money just to help me out. Unforunately, Ive since found out my filter pump level would be affected dropping the water enough to create the aggitation, so have had to buy one anyway. But still - was good of him to do that. The other store wouldve upsold me the most expensive one.

Thanks so much for the help & advice. I'll no doubt be asking more questions as it (hopefully) progresses

 

[FisherFin]

Hey guys

I'm on day 7 of my fishless cycle. Im using ammonia & began with 4ppm. I've not seen any change yet in ammonia levels dropping. Should they have dropped by now? I have a large air stone running on my pump & my temp is 82 degrees. Heater doesnt seem to go higher than that. 2 members from here (Byron & Sue) kindly worked out my dh for me & said it is 1.6dh & 29ppm. So I have very soft water, which I believe can slow the cycle dow. Am I right in thinking that?
I have the JBL combi test kit but can't get my head around the kh test in there. I might go & buy a seperate kit by API & see if its easier to figure out.
Really new to fish keeping so trying my best to research but the info on the internet seems quite varied & confuses me sometimes. I've been testing my ammonia with my API kit every day. My ph is 6.4 straight out of the tap, however, I tested it last night & it is now reading between 7.6 - 8.0. Am I right to assume this raise is due to the ammonia in my tank?

I have lots more questions but cant think off the top of my head.

.....First of all, I would put a fish food of sorts (preferably flake) into the tank to give a good bacteria for all the 'metals, ammonia, etc' to be broken down and get filtered through. Secondly, I would put tapsafe of the required amount (will state on the bottle) into the tank allowing fish to be added as soon as 48hours.
Don't know the science vocabulary to use. Lol

 

[DaveJH]

.....First of all, I would put a fish food of sorts (preferably flake) into the tank to give a good bacteria for all the 'metals, ammonia, etc' to be broken down and get filtered through. Secondly, I would put tapsafe of the required amount (will state on the bottle) into the tank allowing fish to be added as soon as 48hours.
Don't know the science vocabulary to use. Lol

I'm using ammonia already. The water is already treated with a dechlorinator.