Cycling Questions

[jonchall]

Hello all...

I have just recently gotten back into fishkeeping after a 15 year hiatus, which is why my 50 gallon is currently being cycled with fish--there was no such thing as fishless cycling when I was last into this hobby. After setting the tank up and MUCH additional research (most of which was within the posts on this forum--thank you everyone!), I have purchased a 36 gallon corner bowfront tank, which I am currently cycling fishless. I have several questions about the cycling process that I have not been able to find a definitive answer on.

Current Stats:
36 US Gallon (136 Litre) | Fishless
Filter: Fluval 305
--- Original Filter Setup: 3 chambers of the ceramic ring Biomx Media | 3 chambers of activated carbon packs
--- Setup Changed on 7/16/2009: 4 chambers of the ceramic ring Biomx Media | 2 chambers of bio balls (I have a good feeling I discarded some bacteria along with the carbon packs)

Water Conditions:
Temp: 88F (31C)
pH: 7.8
NH3/NH4: 5ppm
NO2: 0ppm
NO3: 0ppm

Notes:
This tank has been cycling since 7/4/2009 (18 days now). The first day I added ammonia (Ace Hardware 10% Ammonium Hydroxide) to a level of 7ppm, which settled down to about 4.5ppm after 12 hours and stayed there for 4 days until it gradually reduced to 1ppm over the course of 3 days. I changed my filter media setup to swap the carbon for more biological surface area, which I believe interrupted my cycle. I'm more concerned that I have the right media installed than how long the cycle will take. I am now waiting for the ammonia level to drop down again--it's been at 5ppm since the carbon swap out 6 days ago. What I would really like to know (and have read conflicting suggestions/statements about) is:
1) Should I be cycling with the lights on / lights off / lights on a timer for X hours per day? Right now they are off.
2) I've read that a lower pH (around 6-6.2 or so) will stall a cycle. Is my pH at 7.8 okay? Is there a high-end stall point?
3) I've read all sorts of things about the proper temperature for fishless cycling. Is my 88F (31C) okay?
4) I've read that aeration is good for the cycling process. My Fluval is running full blast (it states 185 gph which is roughly 5x), and I have 2 medium air stones and one airstone wall running full blast. Is there such a thing as too much aeration?


50 US Gallon (189 Litre) | Fish In
Inhabitants:
--- 1 Green Terror ~2"
--- 1 Blood Parrot ~2.5"
--- 5 Giant Danios ~1.5" to 2"

Filter: 2X Whisper 45EX
--- Original Filter Setup: activated carbon in both filters
--- Setup Changed on 7/18/2009: 1 filter with activated carbon | 1 filter with DIY fabricated polyester sponge media

Water Conditions:
Temp: 78F (26C)
pH: 6.8 - steady for three weeks thus far
NH3/NH4: 0ppm
NO2: 0ppm
NO3: 0ppm

Notes:
I've had this tank running since 6/26/2009, and was originally dosed with Stress Coat+ and Stress Zyme. The next day (6/27/2009), however, I decided to use SeaChem Stability in lieu of Stress Zyme. Added Green Terror and Blood Parrot on 6/30/2009 after ammonia had lowered to under 1ppm (it was very close to pure yellow on API Master Test Kit). After adding the fish, the ammonia increased to .2ppm for two days, then dropped to 0.0ppm. From that day forward, I have had an ammonia level of 0.0. I added the Giant Danios on 7/4/2009 to perhaps kickstart the cycle, but have continued to register 0.0ppm of ammonia. I did decide to change the activated carbon filter packs over to a form of bio media, and since Whisper offers nothing of the sort, I got a square of polyester pond media and cut it to fit the filter frame. I'm only doing one filter at a time in case the carbon filter packs had any bacteria started on them. When I did this, the ammonia did jump to about 0.1 for a day and a half, but then went back to 0.0. Occasionally, I will check for nitrites and nitrates, but I have never registered anything on either. I figure that the fish must be producing ammonia, and if my readings are constantly 0.0ppm, the ammonia must be getting converted to nitrites--and the same for nitrites to nitrates. What has me stumped is that, as well as I remember from my past days of fishkeeping, by this point (3 weeks after adding fish) I was usually doing dialy or twice daily water changes to keep nitrites down as the ammonia part of the cycle had come and gone. So, if anyone can shed some light or offer their opinion on the following, I would be greatly appreciative:
1) Could the SeaChem Stability be holding these levels in check and providing a slower, yet entirely more safe, cycle?
2) I would assume that even one of those fish in a 50 gallon tank would be producing some level of ammonia. I do feed them sparingly. Usually 2 to 3 times a day, as much as they can eat in about 1 minute--4 floating Hikari Cichlid Gold mini pellets and a small pinch of Omega One Super Color flakes. Occasionally, I will substitute a small bit of freeze dried brine shrimp which the Danios really love, or a small chunk of a homemade frozen cube. Would the number and size of the fish (being small) have anything to do with the ammonia level being 0.0ppm? I just have a hard time believing that.
3) Could the original dose of Stress Coat+ still be detoxifying the ammonia? I have not changed the water yet as I have been afraid to cause a spike, but I have topped off some evaporation (about 2 gallons 1 time) and added a small, quantity appropriate dose of Stress Coat+ to the new water before adding it to the tank.
4) Possibly #1 is correct (the Stability theory), and by changing one of the filter's carbon pack to a sponge type media (and thereby destroying a portion of the slowly building bacteria colony), I set the cycle back a week or so. Does this sound viable?

To me, it is just weird that I have no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates after three weeks of having fish in the tank. I'm not really complaining, however, since this has led me to formulate a new strategy--it this trend continues. If these levels stay in check until my 36 gallon has completed the fishless cycle, I plan on rehoming the fish to that tank temporarily, cleaning the 50 gallon, and starting a fishless cycle in that one.

Any opinions or adivce is greatly welcomed! Also, please do not hesitate to ask for any additional info I may have left out.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi jonchall and welcome to TFF!

36G Fishless questions:

1) Should I be cycling with the lights on / lights off / lights on a timer for X hours per day? Right now they are off.
Lights are not needed by the bacteria. Lights will promote algae (light + ammonia = algae trigger) but are needed if you add live plants. I'd just turn the lights on when you are doing testing a working with the tank, that much shouldn't promote too much algae and if you're paranoid you can black out the tank with plastic taped on.

2) I've read that a lower pH (around 6-6.2 or so) will stall a cycle. Is my pH at 7.8 okay? Is there a high-end stall point?
High stall point is not well defined but we generally hope you stay under pH=9. Note that the term "stall" or "pH crash" should only be applied to fishless cycling, and its real, at pH=6.2 and below your bacteria will stop growing and you need to get help here with some actions to take.

3) I've read all sorts of things about the proper temperature for fishless cycling. Is my 88F (31C) okay?
Probably fine, I'd go for 84F/29C.

4) I've read that aeration is good for the cycling process. My Fluval is running full blast (it states 185 gph which is roughly 5x), and I have 2 medium air stones and one airstone wall running full blast. Is there such a thing as too much aeration?
If you can stand the noise, that's great, go for it! You don't really need that much but it won't hurt either.

50G Fish-In tank questions:

1) Could the SeaChem Stability be holding these levels in check and providing a slower, yet entirely more safe, cycle?
We generally consider this to not do anything, like most of the other bacteria in a bottle products. But, who knows, maybe in some fish-in cycling situations its somehow helpful.
Its very difficult to determine from the info whether you are somehow getting through or whether you are actually "pre-symptoms." You definately don't want to let up on testing.

2) I would assume that even one of those fish in a 50 gallon tank would be producing some level of ammonia. I do feed them sparingly. Usually 2 to 3 times a day, as much as they can eat in about 1 minute--4 floating Hikari Cichlid Gold mini pellets and a small pinch of Omega One Super Color flakes. Occasionally, I will substitute a small bit of freeze dried brine shrimp which the Danios really love, or a small chunk of a homemade frozen cube. Would the number and size of the fish (being small) have anything to do with the ammonia level being 0.0ppm? I just have a hard time believing that.
On the one hand I would say more than one feeding a day is excessive, but on the other if you are strictly holding to one minute each, that's not so bad, distributing very small feeding across the day.. nicer for younger smaller fish anyway. Be very wary of overfeeding. You've been away from the hobby, you've forgotten how much they will beg you. Most of us have days when we don't feed at all.

3) Could the original dose of Stress Coat+ still be detoxifying the ammonia? I have not changed the water yet as I have been afraid to cause a spike, but I have topped off some evaporation (about 2 gallons 1 time) and added a small, quantity appropriate dose of Stress Coat+ to the new water before adding it to the tank.
Regardless of whether you are seeing zeros on your test results you are establishing a habit/pattern counter to what we advise. Don't confuse the admonitions to not water change that we give for "fishless" in your fish-in case. As soon as you (1) don't gravel clean and (2) top up water rather than water changing, you are on a bad path to building up over-concentrations of trace metals and organics that need to go out of the tank weekly to maintain a good environment in the long run, assuming non-heavily planted of course.

4) Possibly #1 is correct (the Stability theory), and by changing one of the filter's carbon pack to a sponge type media (and thereby destroying a portion of the slowly building bacteria colony), I set the cycle back a week or so. Does this sound viable?
Yes, you have several reasons to be suspicious that the real fish-in cycling, with traces of ammonia and nitrite showing up, are yet to come. Its a large tank with good filtration and water movement however, so it could be that its making its way nicely and just not giving good feedback blips for the test kits to show, hard to tell! It may show a lot when you gravel clean.

~~waterdrop~~ (chapel hill)

 

[jonchall]

Hi waterdrop, you're right around the corner from me. Thanks for taking the time to read over my questions and address each one.


50G Fish-In tank questions:

1) Could the SeaChem Stability be holding these levels in check and providing a slower, yet entirely more safe, cycle?
We generally consider this to not do anything, like most of the other bacteria in a bottle products. But, who knows, maybe in some fish-in cycling situations its somehow helpful.
Its very difficult to determine from the info whether you are somehow getting through or whether you are actually "pre-symptoms." You definately don't want to let up on testing.

I was quite skeptical of the whole "bacteria in a bottle" thing myself. Unlike most of the others I've read neutral to negative comments about--including Cycle and SafeStart--I read only neutral to positive comments about Stability. I looked for it in the store, found an expiration date on it, and noticed it was made by SeaChem, so I decided to give it a shot. I'll see how things progress, but I was in no way expecting a "miracle cycle."


2) I would assume that even one of those fish in a 50 gallon tank would be producing some level of ammonia. I do feed them sparingly. Usually 2 to 3 times a day, as much as they can eat in about 1 minute--4 floating Hikari Cichlid Gold mini pellets and a small pinch of Omega One Super Color flakes. Occasionally, I will substitute a small bit of freeze dried brine shrimp which the Danios really love, or a small chunk of a homemade frozen cube. Would the number and size of the fish (being small) have anything to do with the ammonia level being 0.0ppm? I just have a hard time believing that.
On the one hand I would say more than one feeding a day is excessive, but on the other if you are strictly holding to one minute each, that's not so bad, distributing very small feeding across the day.. nicer for younger smaller fish anyway. Be very wary of overfeeding. You've been away from the hobby, you've forgotten how much they will beg you. Most of us have days when we don't feed at all.

I am very strict with the feedings--my wife thinks I'm starving the poor things to death!


3) Could the original dose of Stress Coat+ still be detoxifying the ammonia? I have not changed the water yet as I have been afraid to cause a spike, but I have topped off some evaporation (about 2 gallons 1 time) and added a small, quantity appropriate dose of Stress Coat+ to the new water before adding it to the tank.
Regardless of whether you are seeing zeros on your test results you are establishing a habit/pattern counter to what we advise. Don't confuse the admonitions to not water change that we give for "fishless" in your fish-in case. As soon as you (1) don't gravel clean and (2) top up water rather than water changing, you are on a bad path to building up over-concentrations of trace metals and organics that need to go out of the tank weekly to maintain a good environment in the long run, assuming non-heavily planted of course.

I probably should have gone into more detail with this. I actually did (about a week and a half ago) vac the gravel a bit and changed a whopping 5 gallons of the water. My tank is on top of a (very sturdy and heavy) entertainmnet center, and the end of the gravel vac tube stops about mid point of my plasma TV. However, I have a 50' Python gravel vac coming from Amazon.com as we speak (should be here by the weekend). Although I am fearful of making a mess or destroying some electronics, that is not the main reason I have not performed a water change as of yet. My tap water contains about 1ppm ammonia, and I've been hesitant to pump that into a tank that (for the moment) has 0ppm ammonia. What I had planned to do once I get the Python, is do a light vac of the gravel and a slight water change. If I change roughly 10%-15% of the 0ppm ammonia water and refill with 1ppm ammonia water, that should thoretically give a level of .1ppm to .15ppm of ammonia when I'm done. If all continues as it has and the ammonia level drops back down to 0ppm in a couple of days, I would do another vac and 10%-15% change. I know it is wishful thinking to hope that things stay as they are, but then again I figured I'd have high levels of nitrites (or at least ammonia) by now and I don't. My tank has plastic plants too, by the way.

Also, if I were seeing high levels of ammonia or nitrites currently, I would be doing however many water changes I needed to to counteract that. Here's the kicker though, and I hope someone can help me out with this, but what do you do about keeping the ammonia level in your tank down under .25ppm when the water from your tap is at 1ppm? I never have had this problem before--my taps (15 years ago) always shot out ammonia free water!

Thanks again waterdrop!

Jon

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Jon,

OK, coupl'a quick things. Having ammonia in the tap is mostly a problem during the fish-in cycling. During that period I'd try to get a bottle of Seachem Prime (just because so many experienced ones here when I got here reported having such good luck with this one under all sorts of extreme situations) and do 2x dosing (not more than 2x) at water change time (per whole tank dose if doing python or bucket amount if dosing via buckets.) Once the fish-in cycling is over what you do is always make your water changes smaller and more frequent. You have to just mentally convert: If someone recommends a 50% water change then what you do is a 25% and then sometime later do another 25%. What happens is that the smaller amount of incoming water caused the ammonia to become very dilute and giving it some time will allow the now-mature filter to process it. You can use your test kit to investigate it during the early days of establishing these habits and perhaps will find you can modify those starting guidelines.

The other thing was the water changing on the cabinet shared with the stereo. Yes, the Python is great for carrying away the outgoing water and quick-filling after the temperature match at the faucet, but the reality is that its still pretty darn hard not to have small water splashes going here and there. I have a nearly identical Python to what you're getting and I do it all carefully and observe what's going on and refine my details week after week but there's not much getting around it. I have 3 towels I use, one on the floor and 2 smaller ones. You could plan a few of these to have ready as part of your system. Its when you are finished and try to lift the business end straight up out of the tank and wipe it off before it moves past tank edge that I find is a bit hit or miss.

Oh, and a good system for the other end is a receiving bucket that fills and then overflows but serves as a temporary catch of outgoing tank water and is useful for 3 things: catching the occasional zebra danio going on a joy ride, saving water for filter cleaning and thirdly, catching water you can then use in a cup over at the sink to temperature match without having to walk back to the tank room.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jonchall]

Hey waterdrop,

I should have been more precise in my ammonia comment--I have a tendency to under-explain myself sometimes I have a good sized bottle of Stress Coat+, which like Prime, also removes ammonia. I beleive both products do this by converting the (toxic) ammonia to (nontoxic) ammonium. While this is good for the fish, it will be (to say the very least) quite frustrating for me as the ammonia test kit measures levels for both. After a water change, I could be looking at a 1 or 2ppm after doing an ammonia test the following day and thinking that I need to do another water change, when in fact I'm looking at a 1 or 2ppm of ammonium. With the Stress Coat+ or Prime, I wonder how much ammonia a 1.5x dose can convert to ammonium before my readings actually show ammonia instead of ammonium.

Also, I totally agree with you about the water changes after the filters are established. With a fully cycled tank, I should be able to 15% water changes with 1ppm ammonia tap water and only raise the tank water ammonia level to roughly .15ppm, which should be easily manageable.

I already have a set of "fish tank towels" that I have been using when mucking around with the tank--three huge beach towels that are very absorbent!

Great advice for the sink end of the Python! I will definitely do that. I was also concerned about splashing stinky tank water out of the sink and all over the kitchen counter--a catch bucket that overflows should solve that problem as well.

Here is my new plan of action, and any comments/suggestions/advice is greatly welcomed:
Currently, I have a lava rock, a poly resin tree root, and quite a few (too many--thanks wifey!) plastic plants as decorations in the tank. They are slowly becoming covered in (what appears to be) string algae, as are the sides of the tank. My plan is to remove these, scrub them with some hot tap water, and let them dry for a few days. Then, when my Python arrives (I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas day for this thing--thanks Amazon for the $49.99 50 footer that Petco wanted $100 for!), I plan to clean the sides of my tank of algae and perform a decent gravel cleaning/water change. Then, I'm thinking of two three new additions to the tank. The first being a large sponge filter for additional filtration and a good deal of surface area for bacteria. The second being an air stone--a little extra aeration can't hurt. The third being the addition of some Java Moss. From what I've read, the Java Moss is very easy to care for, will add a more natural look to my tank and help balance out my plastic plants, and will help with the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates a bit. I also plan on ditching about 2/3 of the plastic plants to give my inhabitants a bit more swimming room and make way fot the moss to grow a bit.

I feel very fortunate thus far having the water conditions I've experienced--I've not seen any level of ammonia or nitrites in this tank in 16 days (except for a small, 36 hour .1ppm jump in ammonia when I swapped out the carbon for sponge media in one of my filters). I also check nitrates about once every 3 or 4 days--I mean, unless I have found a new strain of magical fish that excrete pristene water, they must be producing some level of ammonia and that ammonia has to go somewhere right? I am fully prepared, however, for the ammonia level to increase once I start cleaning that gravel, but it's something that must be done.

Thanks again waterdrop!

Jon

 

[OldMan47]

Him there Jonchall. I have been using a bucket for my fish water changes and pouring the waste water on my summer tomato plantings. I have never had tomatoes that grew like these ones are. There is more than just water that you are removing, why waste it. Rather than add a sponge filter, why not do something like this to both give small fish a chance in your tank and add the biological impact of the sponge.

That sponge has a slot I cut from one end and then just slipped it up over my filter inlet. It minimizes the number of cleaning that my main filter needs and acts as a great biofilter.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, hi there jonchall and OM, good next point that OM brings up and I should make clear that that's actually what I mainly do with my python too. Most of the time in good weather my receiving end overflow bucket sits out on the patio near the garden and the aquarium outflow fills the bucket and then overflows into the garden. I still get the extra safety catch if my danios go for a ride (this has only happened once) and I get the bucketfull for temp matching and filter cleaning if needed and then after those needs are met the rest in the bucket just gets tipped into the garden. On some bad weather days I just put this overflow bucket in the bathtub. The patio and bathtub are both low enough to give decent siphon flow speed from the tank (remember that a sink will typically be too high.)

Also, don't want to disappoint you with your new toy but I don't actually -use- the green valve that's supplied, lol. Since it uses tap water and wastes it a little bit I actually decided to just start my siphoning by lifting water in the gravel cleaning end and then quickly submerging it into the tank once it begins to flow through the hose over the tank edge. Or, if I'm at the other end I just give that end a suck, since its dry and I'm not that paranoid about bacteria. For me, the thing that was still invaluable about the python company was that they supply a choice of all the weird converter sizes with thread types for many different faucets and also their clear hoses are top quality.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jonchall]

Him there Jonchall. I have been using a bucket for my fish water changes and pouring the waste water on my summer tomato plantings. I have never had tomatoes that grew like these ones are. There is more than just water that you are removing, why waste it. Rather than add a sponge filter, why not do something like this to both give small fish a chance in your tank and add the biological impact of the sponge.

That sponge has a slot I cut from one end and then just slipped it up over my filter inlet. It minimizes the number of cleaning that my main filter needs and acts as a great biofilter.

Thanks for the tip with the sponge OM. I took your advice, and that's exactly what I did--well, kind of. I purchased 2 internal sponge replacements for a MarineLand filter--they were a little more expensive than a household sponge but not by much and they are aesthetically pleasing. I slipped these over the intakes for both EX45s and, so far, they seem to be working wonderfully. It appears to offer a good pre-filter solution to keep the big gunk out of the filter housings and has a ton of extra space for bacterial growth. You're the man, OM! Thanks again for the great tip!

 

[OldMan47]

Mine was a filter sponge for an AC filter and was big enough for me to feel it would not plug up quickly. Household sponges have a closed cell structure that will not let water flow freely so they are a bad idea.

 

[jonchall]

Yes, hi there jonchall and OM, good next point that OM brings up and I should make clear that that's actually what I mainly do with my python too. Most of the time in good weather my receiving end overflow bucket sits out on the patio near the garden and the aquarium outflow fills the bucket and then overflows into the garden. I still get the extra safety catch if my danios go for a ride (this has only happened once) and I get the bucketfull for temp matching and filter cleaning if needed and then after those needs are met the rest in the bucket just gets tipped into the garden. On some bad weather days I just put this overflow bucket in the bathtub. The patio and bathtub are both low enough to give decent siphon flow speed from the tank (remember that a sink will typically be too high.)

Of course, I have to be atypical--it's just my nature The bottom of my tank actually sits 56" above the floor, and my sink is 36" standard height (about 38" where the Python hose connects). I wish I had a garden to nourish with the old tank water--I've done this before and the flora really enjoyed it--but alas, I live in an apartment and have no garden.

Also, don't want to disappoint you with your new toy but I don't actually -use- the green valve that's supplied, lol. Since it uses tap water and wastes it a little bit I actually decided to just start my siphoning by lifting water in the gravel cleaning end and then quickly submerging it into the tank once it begins to flow through the hose over the tank edge. Or, if I'm at the other end I just give that end a suck, since its dry and I'm not that paranoid about bacteria. For me, the thing that was still invaluable about the python company was that they supply a choice of all the weird converter sizes with thread types for many different faucets and also their clear hoses are top quality.

You didn't disappoint me at all--neither did the Python (I got it yesterday afternoon and put it to GOOD use last night). First, I agree with you from what I've seen so far--not only is the clear hose top quality, but also the rest of the Python construction. Sturdy parts, no leaks, no crossthreading of connectors--it seems like a well-made piece of equipment. Not $98.99 at Petco well-made, but definitely $49.99 from amazon.com well-made.

Now, on to my current state of affairs. I removed all of the decorations from the tank last night as they were accumulating a good deal of algae (I've since cut the lighting back from about 11 hours per day to 7 hours per day). I cleaned the algae from the resin log, the plants, and the lava rock with hot water and elbow grease. I scrubbed the tank walls and removed the algae build up there. Then, with a clear tank bottom, I broke out my new toy and did a thorough, deep gravel cleaning and about a 50% water change with it. I tried this both ways--with the sink running and without it running. I got alot more suction with the sink running than without, so I did the deep clean with it. For future, normal gravel cleaning and water changes, I see no need to run the sink as the suction is quite sufficient to remove debris from the gravel surface and a little below it. The water was full of floating algae pieces from the cleaning, but I seemed to catch most of it with the water change/cleaning. I then took OldMan47's advice and fit a sponge over each intake of my filters, dosed the water with Stress Coat+, and refilled. Then I turned the filters and heater back on . . . .

Boom! The tank filled with large bits of algae that had apparently accumulated in the filters. I went to work with the net, scooping out all the major bits of algae I could--and my nice, new sponges on the intakes caught the rest of it, which was a lot. I remebered reading in multiple threads to wait an hour between water changes--so I waited for two hours and then went to work. I turned off the filters, grabbed a bucket, and removed the intake sponges, internal media, and "bio-scrubbers" from both filters. I rinsed them all in dechlorinated water (the tank water was full of algae chunks and I wanted to let it settle). After rinsing the filter, media, and bio-scrubber in the bucket, I let them sit there in the water in hopes of not killing any bacteria that may have built up (the bio-scrubbers were NASTY filthy with slime). I then removed the filter housings and cleaned them--they were nasty with slime as well. By then, the algae had all settled to the tank floor, and I went to work with the Python again, this time without the sink running. I managed to get probably 95% of the algae out with about a 35% water change/surface vac. Conditioned, refilled, cranked up filters and heater, and all seemed well. I let it run for about an hour, then took pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate samples. Nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0ppm, ammonia was at .25ppm, and pH appeared to be about 7.6, which was wierd because my tank's pH before any of this was 6.8 and my tap water is 6.8?! I decided to let it go until this morning and test it again. After testing this morning, ammonia is at 0.0ppm and pH is at 6.8, so all seems well at the moment. I feel much better after giving the gravel a good, deep vac--it desperately needed it. So now I will continue my twice-a-day ammonia checks, and if it holds steady at 0.0ppm, I will start my weekly (or twice-weekly depending upon conditions) surface vac and water change--maybe 20%-25% weekly if ammonia holds steady.

One thing I noticed when my pH spiked (still mystified by that one) is that my Green Terror's colors were exquisite--I mean really outstanding! Of course, I was worried about the sudden fluctuation, but couldn't help but be amazed at how gorgeous he was while I worried. I haven't seen him this morning since the pH stabilized because the lights are off. Now, both the fluctuation and his brilliant coloration lead me to a question about pH stability. I know crushed coral can raise pH and KH, but I'm not educated on the principles of how this works, nor do I know anything about KH (I will shortly, after some research). Would slowly raising the KH and pH via crushed coral in my filter be a viable, long term soultion for maintaining stable levels in both? In other words, will the coral raise those levels to a certain point and then stop, or will it continue to cause those levels to rise? As I understand it now, by adding small amounts at a time, I can slowly raise those levels to a certain point and then they will level off, at which point I can either add another small amount to raise it a bit more, or leave it if the levels are desirable. I just want to make sure this is, in fact, how this works before I attempt it. Now, I suppose I need to track down a KH test kit. I don't want to jack it way up, but perhaps a raise to 7.2 or so.

As usual, any opinions or suggestions are welcomed!

Jon

 

[jonchall]

Mine was a filter sponge for an AC filter and was big enough for me to feel it would not plug up quickly. Household sponges have a closed cell structure that will not let water flow freely so they are a bad idea.

You're absolutely correct about household sponges--I typed that in my reply before I thought about it. The sponges I attached to my intakes look as though they have a very similar, if not the same, cell structure as the one in your picture. And, of course, they are designed as filter sponges. Thanks again for the tip--I just cannot see how the addition of these sponges to the intakes can be anything less than a great move! Easy to clean, keeps the actual filter housing cleaner, and provides a lot more space for bacterial growth--it's a win-win-win!

 

[waterdrop]

Enjoyed your detailed report! By the way, I don't "surface clean" on the weekly gravel cleans, I deep-gravel clean wherever I can, then I reshape the gravel with my hand afterward. Once you realize that the bacteria live tightly bound to the media and that water changes are good it frees you up to do these big water changes when you want to, getting algae, algae spores, algae scrapings, debris, trace metals, organics and all sorts of stuff out of there and allowing fresh calcium, iron and other good things to come in with the fresh tap water. Its so much better than years ago of wondering whether "old water" was good.

You've pretty much got the KH/pH thing down correctly and you'll pick up the rest. The major thing you're missing is the gravity of the decision to "go away from your source water parameters." Its a bit of a momentous decision because it potentially leads to some day way out in the future when circumstances cause you to somehow *not* maintain your altered water and the fish are killed by a sudden change back to the source water parameters (for the most part its hardness shock that is the likely slip-up.) For that reason, the wisdom is to usually attempt to "embrace" your given water and for the most part plan your tanks around it to some extent. Now, given that that is appreciated, one can still decide to be the extra vigilant type and go the crushed coral route. A member, drobbyb, and I sometimes have these discussions because we have similar low-KH piedmont southeast usa water. I believe he has gone the crushed coral route and I am borderline, I have my crushed coral sitting in a bag in the shed but haven't ever decided to use it yet and instead to the larger water changes to bring in my fresh little doses of calcium from the tap water, small as they are. If you do some searches specifically on my ID and KH you can probably find my early learning sessions and such archived here in the threads and of course when the time comes I can relate the lore again hopefully or we can yak at an RAS meeting, but you've mostly already got it right.

~~waterdrop~~