Cycling Question

[ldsdbomber]

Really happy to see a forum with a dedicated section to science. As a clinical scientist (Radiotherapy Physics) it can be very frustrating to know nothing about a subject (biology and chemistry of aquaria!) but only be able to get anecdotal answers and advice, often resulting in confrontation when inquisitive thinking is misinterpreted as lack of patience!

To cut a long story short, my tank finally "cycled" somewhat without fish after about 2 months of messing about, I can give details later if necessary, but when I say cycled, I mean the tank was clearing 0.5 to 1ppm ammonia in just over 12 hours. However, after a cleanup and water change in readiness for some plants and fish, the cycling seems to have been slowed, to the point where 1ppm ammonia is taking a good 24 hours, the ammonia is clearing in about 12 hours, but there is a marked lag in the nitrite clearance. In my attempts to cycle, I think I made many mistakes and basically swamped the tank with ammonia, missed a vital pH crash (my KH is very low), and basically endured a huge nitrite phase which was also undiagnosed (several forums did not seem to know that a super high nitrite and low buffering capacity can give very weird colours and behaviours on the nitrite liquid tests!).

Anyway, the tank itself is a 10g (actually more like 9g) tall cylinder, the reef one biube, with ceramic media (very large and rocky), air pump and airstone through a central axis bubble tube, and heater set to 28 C.

What I'd like to know at this stage is whether I should just keep feeding 1ppm ammonia daily and hope that at some point the nitrite eating colony catches up enough so that 12 hours is enough to clear both, or do I need to reduce the ammonia until I get 12 hour clearance of both and then slowly raise ammonia feeding, or do I raise ammonia feeding now and potentially endure another prolonged nitrite phase. As a final point, given the likely stock I will put in (one single male betta plus some shrimp, OR a small group of neons, OR a trio of fancy guppies), is there a target ammonia/nitrite clearance rate I need to get to
I have also been told that since my tank is cycling to a degree, even if it's been slowed a bit, adding fish will be OK since the ammonia from the fish comes into the system more slowly and gradually than from a teaspoon, and all the processes can act at a more "natural" speed

many thanks for any responses

I also wanted to add....

is this
http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/biofilm/devbio.shtml

what I may have misguidedly removed, would it look like a brownish slightly coagulated clump on and around the top of the filter cartridge intake area? I was told this would not affect the cycle, but I am starting to question that advice.

it looked like this
http/www.fishlore.com/fishforum/attachments/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/38494d1266524332-what-my-best-method-attack-continue-cycle-img_8311small.jpg

 

[fatheadminnow]

Right now, I would add up to 3 ppm of ammonia, and watch your ammonia and nitrite closely. Once nitrite begins to fall down to 0 ppm in 12 hours(or a little longer) then go ahead and start dosing up to 5 ppm. It is 5 ppm of ammonia that we need to go to 0 ppm, along with nitrite, in 12 hours for a tank to be considered cycled.

If your pH drops below 6.5, this will stall your cycle. Make sure you pH does not drop this low, mainly by doing water changes at this stage to control pH.

to TFF!!!!

-FHM

 

[ldsdbomber]

Thanks.
I forgot to add that I have two small bamboo sticks covered in java moss in there plus one of those spongey moss ball thingies. Is it OK to leave those in and just go to the 3ppm, or are they better off removed?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Better off removed. Plants in a cycle tank is not a good idea. Since plants need light to properly photosynthesis, that means you are going to need the light on during the day, at least, for the plants. Well, ammonia + light = algae. It is best to cycle a tank with lights off. Also, bamboo, so I have read, will rot if it is kept 100% submerged. You need to have the leaves above the water level.

-FHM

 

[OldMan47]

Although the actual science involved in a fishless cycle is only partially understood, we do have methods that work from a practical standpoint. Here we go again with an empirical set of techniques along with assumed responses of bacteria with little real evidence that works great, but we can never prove is correct. It is not science in the very real sense that I can properly explain what is happening in a fishless cycle. There are plenty of explanations brought to the fore, my own speculations are included in that group. On the other hand, we have almost unlimited data that says that our method of fishless cycling a tank's filter does indeed work. I understand your preference for scientific data but find that the best we can do is provide empirical evidence that our method indeed works. When it comes down to proof, I can offer none at all. The best I can do is lead a newcomer through a known sequence of steps that we know, from our experiences, works to cycle a tank's filter. I wish I could do better and provide a solid theory that explains what is happening but the best that I can do is my own hypotheses about what I have seen over a lifetime of setting up new tanks and the chemical responses that make sense to me with my observations.