Cycling - New Tank Syndrome Questions

thebulk

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Would you say that the cycling process is as much required for tropical fish?
Ive had a few marine tanks in my time and have reverred back to the good ol tropical tank, I know you need a good month to get a marine tank going before you add any fish but I added my tropical fish about 4 days after getting it going and they are still happy as larry. Was I just lucky or am I right?
-_-
 
thebulk said:
Would you say that the cycling process is as much required for tropical fish?
Ive had a few marine tanks in my time and have reverred back to the good ol tropical tank, I know you need a good month to get a marine tank going before you add any fish but I added my tropical fish about 4 days after getting it going and they are still happy as larry. Was I just lucky or am I right?
-_-
The nitrogen cycle is as important in fresh water as it is in marine. And ammonia and nitrite are still the most common causes of fish deaths. Every day we get newbies joining the group with dead and dying fish due to their tank not being properly cycled - hang around a bit and you'll see the depressing reality :(

As for you being lucky, maybe you were, if you set up your tank without matured filter media. OTOH, you don't say how long you've had this tank. It can take 8-10 weeks for a tank to cycle with fish and the nitrite phase lasts the longest. Nitrite is somewhat less poisonous than ammonia, but it can have a devastating cummalative effect if left untreated for weeks at a time. Your fish could still be in danger - you need to keep an eye on the nitrite levels and keep up very regular water changes. I just hope you luck out.
 
thebulk, unlike in marine tanks when the cycling starts when you add the liverocks - which have some dead/decaying matter on it, tropical fish tanks with only sterile gravel etc... the cycling only begins when the fish are added you did not say how long your tank was set up but cycling may take 8 weeks to finish so I'd still keep a close eye on your tank.
 
How do you know when it's done cycling? And with the Hagen product Cycle, how long do you think?
 
bgraber said:
How do you know when it's done cycling? And with the Hagen product Cycle, how long do you think?
You know its done when you are getting nitrite and ammonia values at zero a few hours after you've added ammonia or whatever to "feed" the bacteria, and its staying at zero for a few days. However, it's important either to continue "feeding" the bacteria or add to fish to keep the bacteria alive.

I have no experience of bacterial products like "Cycle" but as I said the in article, I cannot see how it could work particularly well and there is no evidence to back up that claim (in fact, the bottle very cunningly doesn't make any claims at all about whether it actually speeds up cycling - it just says it contains bacteria necessary for cycling. Which is true, but then, so does pond mud! ). Some of the refrigerated products that are appearing on the market may be useful in speeding up the cycle in emergency situations, but none of these products can get around the fact that bacteria need to colonise your gravel and filter, and that can only happen at a certain rate.

Personally, I think fish keepers should try to keep things as simple as possible and use as few products as possible.
 
I read all the items here with interest and would not dismiss the validity of what has been said. But, I live in the UK and have kept fish for around 7 years and currently have 2 tanks 34 gals in total with over 30 fish and have never cycled either of my tanks. I have only ever left a tank with the filter running for 1 week before introducing fish ...a few at a time. Ive never added any chemicals with the excepting of some fin repair on a fish that had been bullied. no anti chlorine stuff or anything.....and to date Ive never lost a fish to illness.......a few have been eaten but thats the way it goes but all my fish are happy with what comes straight from the tap. I have had friends who have tried setting up tanks and done it "by the book" with total failure...lost fish within weeks. Maybe I'm just lucky?....I do spend at least 1/2 hour a day doing something on my tanks and I keep the filters really clean once a fornight and I rotate this with interim gravel and glass cleaning. I think fish are hardier than they are given credit for.
 
But, I live in the UK and have kept fish for around 7 years and currently have 2 tanks 34 gals in total with over 30 fish and have never cycled either of my tanks.
The term "cycled" means you have sufficient beneficial bacteria in your tank to keep down the nitrite and ammonia. Since your fish are alive and healthy whether you consciously "cycled" your tank or not, I assure you your tank is cycled. I presume you have hardy fish who survived the initial cycling process and probably you did regular water changes that helped.

I have only ever left a tank with the filter running for 1 week before introducing fish ...a few at a time.

That is the traditional way of cycling a tank, whether you called it that or not. However, it is risky, particularly with more delicate fish.

Ive never added any chemicals with the excepting of some fin repair on a fish that had been bullied. no anti chlorine stuff or anything.....
In UK water companies have been traditionally cautious about using disinfectants such as chlorine and chloramine. However, times are a changing and we've had several Brits on this board lose fish due to chlorine or chloramine in their water (invariably they've forgotten to dechlorinate or their dechlorinator wasn't up to the job). Our water isn't as good as it always used to be.

and to date Ive never lost a fish to illness.......a few have been eaten but thats the way it goes but all my fish are happy with what comes straight from the tap.

I'm glad your fish have done fine. However, how exactly does one tell a "happy" fish?

I have had friends who have tried setting up tanks and done it "by the book" with total failure...lost fish within weeks.
What book was that? Incidently, fishless cycling isn't in most books because its a new method, largely devised on the Internet. The books I have describe cycling exactly as you have done - adding fish very slowly, minimal feeding, frequent water changes etc.

Maybe I'm just lucky?....I do spend at least 1/2 hour a day doing something on my tanks and I keep the filters really clean once a fornight and I rotate this with interim gravel and glass cleaning. I think fish are hardier than they are given credit for.

Your fish are obviously quite hardy and you are obviously diligent about water changes and keeping the filters clear. I'm not dissing your obvious expertise - that isn't "luck", that's hard work. However, many newbies get far too many fish (usually due to bad advice from LFS's), don't do enough water changes, have inadequate filtration and lose a lot of fish before they learn better.

But you have matured tanks and that's all that cycling is really - maturing a tank. You don't need to do fishless cycling because your tank is already well and truly cycled, and the health of your fish shows that it works. If you were to start another tank no doubt you'd "seed" it from another established tank and probably wouldn't even think that this was "fishless cycling". However, that would be just what it is.

I still believe it is a welfare issue - when we knew no better, then cycling with danios or whatever was the only way to go, but now we have this method (Fishless Cycling) we don't need to cause fish to suffer at all.

However, there is another issue: our day and age is one of instant gratification. We could try advising newbies to add a couple of new fish every 6 weeks but would they do that? Probably not. They'd probably keep trying to push the limits and we'd still have the posts from newbies with over-stocked, un-cycled tanks, desperate to know what to do to save their fish.
 
what does the WORDS new tank syndrome mean anna ?

if we say new tank syndrome
 
QUOTE 
Ive never added any chemicals with the excepting of some fin repair on a fish that had been bullied. no anti chlorine stuff or anything.....
In UK water companies have been traditionally cautious about using disinfectants such as chlorine and chloramine. However, times are a changing and we've had several Brits on this board lose fish due to chlorine or chloramine in their water (invariably they've forgotten to dechlorinate or their dechlorinator wasn't up to the job). Our water isn't as good as it always used to be
i think you may find that these people did use a dechloranater But
the 1 they used like myself did not remove chloramine which ended up fatal

i now have both wardley conditioner and wardleys chlor out
these are selling in tesco shopping centre in uk for 2 pounds each last a very long time
 
fish&chips said:
what does the WORDS new tank syndrome mean anna ?

if we say new tank syndrome
Well often beginners lose their fish soon after setting up there "new tank", because this happens to so many people and it is almost a sign that when you hear the words fish dying and new tank in the same sentance, it invariabily means only one thing - the tank is cycling - "new tank syndrome".

I'm splitting this topic from the main one as the main one should be here just for reference :)
 
William said:
fish&chips said:
what does the WORDS new tank syndrome mean anna ?

if we say new tank syndrome
Well often beginners lose their fish soon after setting up there "new tank", because this happens to so many people and it is almost a sign that when you hear the words fish dying and new tank in the same sentance, it invariabily means only one thing - the tank is cycling - "new tank syndrome".

I'm splitting this topic from the main one as the main one should be here just for reference :)
partly right



NEW TANK SYNDROME
what is new tank syndrome
new tank syndrome is the word given to the process of a cycling tank and HAS nothing to do with fish ATALL
completly wrong

its just the cycling proces thats it end of any person whome owns a new tank will
have new tank syndrome untill matured ?
 
backing up what i say

New Tank Syndrome
In established aquariums, just as in nature, ammonia is broken down by bacteria into nitrite, which is itself broken down by a different group of bacteria into nitrate. In a newly set up aquarium, those bacteria are not present in any quantity, and it takes time - about a month under normal circumstances - for those bacteria to multiply to the point of being able to keep up with the waste output of the fish. "New Tank Syndrome" and "The Break- In Cycle" describe the period in which ammonia and then nitrite levels rise to dangerous quantities before being converted into relatively harmless nitrate.

it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM DYING where do you get this from?
 

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