Cycling, lots of pH crashes, will that happen too when I get fish?

[amaranth13]

So I worked from home today giving me more time to test things. Both tanks were dosed with respectively 2 and 3 ppm yesterday evening. Then this morning, there was no ammonia left in either of them and 0.25 ppm of nitrites in each of them. I tested nitrites again at noon and at 7.30 pm, and in both cases, the nitrite level remained 0.25 ppm... I'm so confused! The bacteria clearly can handle more nitrites, since the rest of the nitrites created by the ammonia were processed. Why aren't the bacteria processing anything after it reaches 0.25 ppm? The pH hadn't lowered enough today on either tank to need a water change so it can't be that the pH became too low to process it.. I have no idea what's going on. And my water has no nitrites in it from the tap, so that's not it either..

 

[Byron]

I have never "cycled" an aquarium in over 30 years (I always have live plants including floaters which negates this) so I do not like to start suggesting things re the nitrites. But I will make an observation or two.

Do you have live plants in this tank? If yes, I would do major water changes to get rid of all trace of ammonia or nitrite (presumably nitrate too unless this comes in your water). Do not add any more ammonia. Once things have settled, with the live plants, we can consider adding fish.

 

[amaranth13]

Sorry, I don't have live plants, when started I wasn't considefring those, but I've heard good things about having plants now Would it help to add some? I have a sand subtrate though, not sure how to anchor plants in that. Floating plants might work. ,

 

[Silencedogood]

I would definitely add live plants. They will not only help with your cycle, but they will keep your water clean and when you add fish, it makes the tank more comfortable for them (in my opinoin). Some good choices include:
Amazon Sword
Anubias
Java Fern
Java Moss
Jungle Val (you can do any of the varieties; I have the giant type and also the val that's leaves swirl).
Good luck!

 

[Byron]

I agree, live plants always benefit. First, with water quality: they assimilate ammonia/ammonium as their preferred form of nitrogen and it is amazing how much they can take up. Floating plants are often referred to as "ammonia sinks" for this very reason. Also here, you have acidic pH water which means the ammonia automatically becomes primarily ammonium which is not only relatively harmless to fish but will be gobbled/sucked up by plants faster than the bacteria can even handle it. And the benefit of that is...no nitrite results.

Faster growing plants obviously take up more, and nothing is faster growing than floating plants which is one reason I am so often recommending them. But this brings me to the second benefit of plants...shade and cover. Floating plants especially will always calm fish more than not having them because most of our fish are forest species that do not like overhead light to begin with.

Sand is the ideal plant rooting substrate; I have it in all my tanks. Once the plants take hold, they will not come up unless you have real excavator fish. Floating are easiest, so even just some of those would benefit.

 

[Silencedogood]

I agree, live plants always benefit. First, with water quality: they assimilate ammonia/ammonium as their preferred form of nitrogen and it is amazing how much they can take up. Floating plants are often referred to as "ammonia sinks" for this very reason. Also here, you have acidic pH water which means the ammonia automatically becomes primarily ammonium which is not only relatively harmless to fish but will be gobbled/sucked up by plants faster than the bacteria can even handle it. And the benefit of that is...no nitrite results.

Faster growing plants obviously take up more, and nothing is faster growing than floating plants which is one reason I am so often recommending them. But this brings me to the second benefit of plants...shade and cover. Floating plants especially will always calm fish more than not having them because most of our fish are forest species that do not like overhead light to begin with.

Sand is the ideal plant rooting substrate; I have it in all my tanks. Once the plants take hold, they will not come up unless you have real excavator fish. Floating are easiest, so even just some of those would benefit.

I have been looking for floating plants for the same reasons Byron just mentioned. I recently added a whole bunch of live plants to my tank and not only do the fish love it but my water is crystal clear.

 

[amaranth13]

That is really cool, what plants can do. I bought plastic floating plants but real ones would be much better, I agree. I'm going to have to read up on how to take care of them and what they need. I'm worried about my aquarium light, they are two of the oldfashioned type of lightbulb with the filament. So not good light for plants, i presume. the tank gets some indirect sunlight but not direct.. t's a standard 10 gallon so Imight be able to find a better hood but affordability is an issue right now, I've already sunk wayyy too much money in this! I am enjjoying it a lot though.

Silencedogood would the plants you suggest be small enough for a 10 galllon? I will be having at the ennd 10 ember tetras in it is my plan, but once i'm done cycling i thought to start with 6, so they have a minimum school. slower is also an option of course. but I understand with cycling you basiically alreeady have the bacteria to process half of your bioload. places for them to hide is I know important, and I had set that up with plastic plants too. I will be looking into how to take care of live ones!

 

[Byron]

There are some options when considering plants, and I thought a few photos of my tanks might illustrate. The first is my 29g Amazon blackwater tank, which has only a pygmy chain sword plant (though it has sent out runners and is spreading as you can see) and a larger sword (in the rear corner) that are rooted in the substrate, with the primary plants being a bunch of Brazilian Pennywort just left floating. It forms a nice tangle that sucks up ammonia like a sponge, provides shade, and is the favourite haunt of my Rocket Pencilfish that spend all day swimming among the tangles, looking for microscopic food and laying eggs!

Second is my 40g flooded Amazon tank as it was before I moved; the chain swords spread all over the sand, and the floating plants in this tank are Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta). Third photo is the same tank as in was in May 2016 with larger sword plants. This tank has been torn down and re-aquascaped a few times.

 

[Byron]

I'm worried about my aquarium light, they are two of the oldfashioned type of lightbulb with the filament. So not good light for plants, i presume. the tank gets some indirect sunlight but not direct.. t's a standard 10 gallon so Imight be able to find a better hood but affordability is an issue right now, I've already sunk wayyy too much money in this!

The least expensive but excellent option here is simply new CFL bulbs. My 10g and 20g tanks have the old indandescent (screw-in) bulb fixtures, and I use two CFL 9w Daylight 6500K bulbs. The plants thrive in these tanks, and the bulbs last a few years. GE make them, at least the ones I get from a home improvement store. Main thing is only 9w (the higher wattages will be too much light and cause algae issues) and the spectrum at 6500K. K stands for Kelvin, the colour temperature of light, and 6500K is close to the sun.

Direct sunlight should not strike an aquarium. Indirect diffused as through blinds is OK but sometimes this can be enough additional light to again cause algae issues.

 

[Silencedogood]

Beautiful tanks, @Byron.

@amaranth13, yes, the types of plants that I mentioned will fit a ten gallon except for the giant jungle val. I would definitely change your lighting; go with what Byron suggested. I have 5 LED lights on my planted tank and they seem to work very well.

 

[amaranth13]

Thank you both for your suggestions! Byron do your 10 and 20 gallon hoods have splash guards? Mine do and thhey would dim the light. Should I remove them if I can? I'll be looking for those bulbs and I will also look at your tanks more closely tonight, Byron, I'm on my tablet right now.

Silencedogood: I'm glad almost all those plants will work. I understand to remove dead leaves and stuff right away, correct?

 

[Silencedogood]

Silencedogood: I'm glad almost all those plants will work. I understand to remove dead leaves and stuff right away, correct?

Yes, I would remove the dead leaves if they are loose. I typically just leave mine until they fall off themselves unless they look really dead.

 

[Byron]

Thank you both for your suggestions! Byron do your 10 and 20 gallon hoods have splash guards? Mine do and thhey would dim the light. Should I remove them if I can? I'll be looking for those bulbs and I will also look at your tanks more closely tonight, Byron, I'm on my tablet right now.

Silencedogood: I'm glad almost all those plants will work. I understand to remove dead leaves and stuff right away, correct?

If by splash guards (a term I have not previously encountered) you mean a glass cover between the light and the water surface, yes. Always have this, never put any light directly over water without a glass (or plexiglass) clear separation.

Just to make certain, the CFL bulbs are those spiral ones that screw in to ordinary incandescent sockets. They use much less energy and generate less heat. Just make sure they are the 6500K.

Yellowing leaves don't look nice so I tend to remove them. And it does decrease the organics which may or may not matter much; organics are the prime source of nutrients for plants but an excess can cause algae problems, cloudy water, rising nitrates...all bad.

 

[amaranth13]

Yeah that's what I mean by splash guards. the ones I have are kind of dim so I'm a little worried about the light being dimmed a bit. Is this the bulb you are speaking of? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002N2L052/?tag=ff0d01-20 It looks expensive at Amazon but will be a lot cheaper at the home improvement store, so if it is I'll go look there. Tomorrow my LFS will get a new shipment of freshwater aquarium plants so I'll get them then. I'm not dosing ammonia tonight to see if the 0.25 ppm of nitrite won't get processed maybe. Once I have the plants and have done a big water change to put them in, I think it's better not to re-dose with ammonia right? For the plants? Or is it a food for them? I would like to see what the water stats are with some ammonia after 24 hours before putting fish in.

Are frog bit and duck weed possible to become pests? I will need some floating plants, not just rooted plants. I read that hornwort is also good as a floating plant but also as a rooted plant. Still looking at all the options! I'm hoping to get some Anubias Nana, for both the 10 gallon and for the betta 5.5 gallon, and will also put some floating plants in the betta tank. It has the same nitrite issues.

 

[Byron]

So I worked from home today giving me more time to test things. Both tanks were dosed with respectively 2 and 3 ppm yesterday evening. Then this morning, there was no ammonia left in either of them and 0.25 ppm of nitrites in each of them. I tested nitrites again at noon and at 7.30 pm, and in both cases, the nitrite level remained 0.25 ppm... I'm so confused! The bacteria clearly can handle more nitrites, since the rest of the nitrites created by the ammonia were processed. Why aren't the bacteria processing anything after it reaches 0.25 ppm? The pH hadn't lowered enough today on either tank to need a water change so it can't be that the pH became too low to process it.. I have no idea what's going on. And my water has no nitrites in it from the tap, so that's not it either..

I cannot explain the nitrites, and will leave that for those with more experience in "cycling" as I have none.

I agree, once you add live plants do not add ammonia, you risk killing the plants.

On the light, you want 9w and 6500K in a CFL (compact fluorescent, the spiral screw-in bulb). I found the 9w GE here:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002N2L052/?tag=ff0d01-20

Philips and Sylvania make similar (= identical) bulbs. Just make sure they are 9w and 6500K.