Cycling Disaster?

[Ch4rlie]

whooooooo!!!!!!!!! 

 
Will do a big water change tomorrow and get some fishies!!!

 
Does that mean I need to dose 1ppm ammonia for tonight (its 22.43 here so a bit late to do water change now...)
Tomorrow afternoon after work would be soonest that I can do water change. Would you say about 80 - 85% water change be about right?
 
Any recommendations of fish for my water type at a steady 8.0 - 8.2 ph and moderately hard water would be great. Thanks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Maybe I missed it... what are the dimensions of the tank?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Sorry, yeah, tank is a Fluval Roma 90 litre
 
w 60cm (24") x D 35cm (14") x H 45 (18")
 
Pea Gravel
Live plants
Bogwood
External filter
 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

No need to do wc today nor to dose the 1 ppm if adding fish tomorrow. Do the water change and get tank to desired temp before going for the fish tomorrow.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Right, Have done 75 - 80% water change, de-chlorinated to exact dosage as per instruction on bottle, tank temperature at 24 - 25 C/ 75 - 77 F, set up checked and all looks good and ready for fish in early afternoon tomorrow!!
 
Whooeey! cant wait!! 

 
So thought would ask few last questions / opinions about my stocking selections and numbers, I have decided that since water parameters are a little high than usual so have gone for Northern Australia or New Guinea species rather than pick and mix as thought more interesting imo this way for my first tank.
 
6 x Dwarf Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi)
8 x Featherfin Rainbowfish (Iriatherina werneri)
6 x Red Cherry Shrimp (Neocaridina heteropoda)
2 x Assassin Snails (Clea helena)
 
I have removed Edlers from previous my list as felt this was not quite right to go with Rainbowfish.
Added shrimps as found that Cories not really suitable with pea gravel in tank and needed something for the bottom of tank.
Assissin snails to keep the common pond snails, that hitch hiked into my tank via the live plants, under control so I don't get an explosion in numbers of common snails!! in theory! 

 
I believe these numbers are suitable for my 90 litre tank (24 US Gal) with live plants and external filter.
 
Please let me know any comments/opinion on these choices and numbers if any are unsuitable in any way - aggressive/fin nippers/territorial etc.
 
I will be going to my LFS in afternoon tomorrow to buy 4 to 6 rainbow fish, dependant on what they have in stock.
Believe is best only to do up to 6 fish at a time in stocking new tanks and then weekly thereafter for new fish. Is that right? 

 
Thanks 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

 
Believe is best only to do up to 6 fish at a time in stocking new tanks and then weekly thereafter for new fish. Is that right?

 
No, it is not right. Here is what the Cycling link here says re this:
 

 
A major benefit of this fishless cycling method is that you can now fully stock your tank in one go. This means an average stocking level for your tank size. It certainly does not mean you can stock heavily or over stock. If for any reason you are unable to stock the tank when it is cycled, you can continue adding ammonia to keep the tank cycled. For this you should add the 1/3 snack amount every 2-3 days. The bacteria do not need to be fed every day and will be fine. Don’t forget the water change before adding the fish.

 
Gradual stocking is required for fish in cycling. If you do not stock fully reasonably soon after completing a fishless cycle, you may start to lose bacteria as the colony sizes towards the bio- load. You can turn a well done fisless cycle back into a fish in one.
 

 

[Ch4rlie]

Good to know. That advice is great. I forgot about that section of Cycling link. 
 
Assumed (I know assume means to make an ASS out of U and ME!! lol) bacteria would be fine also with gradual stocking but now do understand this is not the case.
 
I am now going to stock my tank with 15 Threadfin Rainbowfish, 8 to 12 Red Cherry Shrimps and 2 Assassin Snails.
 
Will get most if not all these tomorrow afternoon, dependant on LFS stocks.
 
Thank you for that very concise explanation and is much appreciated.

 

[214jay]

Just a thought...From what I have been advised the shrimp should go in around a month after the fish as they are more sensitive to fluctuations (thanks to Zante for that).  Found the same advice looking through the forums.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am not in agreement with the above. A fishlessly cycled tank should be pretty stable. That is the point of spending those weeks getting it established.
 
Now I can work faster than most because I have the capacity. I have a 50 gal tank which holds about 50 Amano shrimp whose sole job is to clean algae off plants that are rotated through the tank for that purpose. The tank was set up about three or four days before the 50 shrimp went in. Because the tank contained a ton of plants, a Poret foam filter from my bio-farm tank and some wood and rocks from cycled tanks, it was functionally cycled as soon as it was set up.
 
That was last March. The shrimp have grown fat and sassy.
 
Shrimp should never be used during a fish in cycle though. there they should be near the last things to be added.

 

[214jay]

That would be good news if that is the case, I was only stating what I have read from other members. Good to hear your experiences though.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My bet is there are several variables at work. I would almost bet dollars to donuts that, just like fish, different shrimp are differently sensitive to different things. My experience is limited to amanos and cherries.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Thanks for the advice and comments above. 
 
Am in agreement with twotank that different shrimps are sensitive to different variables, exactly like fish. Common sense really.
 
As of today, I have now fully stocked my 24 Gal tank with 15 Threadfin Rainbowfish (5 males , 10 females, I think!), 6 Red Cherry Shrimps and 2 Assassin snails.
 
All the shrimps seems to be doing well so far, exploring and going everywhere in the tank, great to watch!! Thought they would hide for a day or two before coming out, but within 10 minutes, the 3 older red cherries were out and about, the juvenile one can be seen now and again but the 2 little shrimps which still do not have colour yet have been out of sight ever since being put into the tank. Hopefully that is normal behaviour.
 

 

 
Looking good and look forward to seeing the different personalities and characters emerging as time goes by.
 

 

[214jay]

Sounds brilliant, love the pics!  Do you have anymore of the whole tank?  How big are the older cherries?  The only ones my lfs sell are tiny (almost microscopic!)  I thought I would try some ghost shrimp in my new tank, turned out they were not ghosts and tried to eat my new fish

 

[Ch4rlie]

214jay - thanks for your comments, appreciated. Will post some pics later as am still at work just now!! 
 
The Red Cherries Shrimps - the older ones are about 2cm in length and are cocky little characters! Can't imagine my tank without them now!! lol
 
Juvenile one is only about 1.5 cm and still a little bit shy.
 
The little ones are oh I dunno, about 0.5cm as have not seen them for a while! Hopefully they will come out in a day or two once get some confidence and know layout of tank.
 
Maybe theyll come out when I feed the fish for the first time later today. Will try to get a pic of them but doubtful really! 
 
Does not matter if you get tiny little cherries from lfs as they will grow anyway!
 
Sounds like your 'ghosts' shrimps are actually macros, nasty little critters and will eat your fish, am afraid. Recommend you get these out pronto!!
 
Good luck!

 

[Ch4rlie]

Here are some pics of my tank set up.
 

Realise my fish looks tiny in this tank and have to keep remembering they will grow bigger!! lol
 
If you look closely, you'll see 2 of my red cherries, one small one on bogwood, other between the half coconut cave and bogwood. 

Also an assassin snail can be seen in middle of bottom of pic next to round brown pebble. 

 
214jay - you wanted to see how big the Red Cherries are, here is a pic that i think illustrates this nicely
(sorry, pic quality is not the best, used my iphone but when enlarge pics they blur a bit, need to get myself a decent camera!!)
 

 
Older shrimp on the left, about 2cm, Threadfin in middle, about 2.5cm, small shrimp on right about 1cm
In actual fact this small shrimp has changed colour, is more red now 

 
Still have not seen the 2 smallest shrimps that are still in grey colour 

No doubt I will see them soon enough, just gotta be patient