Cycleing a new tank & adjusting pH

[YngUrbanCMH]

Hello!
I just setup a 30 gallon freshwater tank last week and am in the very initial stages of cycling. The first 48 hours I allowed it to run with just a bit of aquarium salt, dechlorinator, and an agent that supposedly contains nitrosomonas and nitrobacters.

I'm cycling with 3 zebra danios, 3 tiger barbs, 3 serpae tetra, 3 yucitan black mollies, and 6 white clouds (the expert at my local aquarium shop assured me that they were small enough and hearty enough to survive, but after doing more reading I expect to lose a few ). Fish have been in the tank for 3 days and so far my ammonia levels read 0 and nitrite levels read .25ppm.

I read an article that suggested that ammonia is far less toxic at a neutral pH? Is it worth using something like pH Down (pH is 7.6... kH is 4.5dkh) and slowly adjust the pH or could it do more harm than good?

 

[H2O]

That is a lot of fish to be cycling with... ...the idea is to cycle the tank with a few hardy fish and then gradually build up the numbers.
You may well lose a lot of those fish.
Because of the high number of fish in a small tank you need to watch those Ammonia/Nitrite readings carefully and be prepared to do a lot of regular water changes to keep them down.
Leave the pH alone. Messing with that will just add to the stress on the fish.

 

[impur]

H2O is right, leave the PH. The chances of you getting the ph exactly at 7.0 are slim. A varying PH will just add to the stress the fish have to endure while you cycle.

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

Thanks H2O & impur....

H20, I read another of your posts about fishless cycleing, do you have any other info on this method?

Thanks

 

[H2O]

Right, here you go:

Fishless Cycle

To do a fishless cycle you need to find a source of pure Ammonia. This is the hardest part.
I am in the UK and managed to find a cheap household cleaner in a small DIY Store that was pure Ammonia.
It just says 'Household Cleaner' on the bottle and 'Ammonia' at the bottom.
Some cleaners may contain perfumes or surfactants. These are no good. Do not use them.
If you are not sure if the cleaner is pure ammonia or not just give the bottle a shake and have a look inside (watch your nose ) if the liquid has a lot of foam on top (like you would get if you shook a bottle of washing up liquid but not as bad) then it contains perfumes, etc. If there are just a few bubbles from shaking it (like if you shook a bottle of water) then it is just ammonia.

The rest is simple.

Set up your tank, filter running, heater and everything. ( you don't need the lights though )
Do not use a dechlorinator that removes ammonia.
Don't add any live plants until the cycle is complete as they will feed on ammonia too.
Add the ammonia until your ammonia test kit reads 5 ppm. (as a guide start with about 1 drop per US gallon then test and add 1 drop per US gallon until it shows 5 ppm ammonia)
Keep track of how much ammonia you add to reach the 5 ppm reading.

Next day test for Nitrite. You may be suprised to find it!

If you do get a readable amount of Nitrite add just half the amount of ammonia per day until the cycle is complete.

If you did not get a Nitrite reading then add the same amount of ammonia as you did the first day then check for Nitirite the next day. As soon as you get a Nitrite reading reduce the ammonia additions to half the original amount and keep adding that amount every day until the cycle is done.

You will know when it is done when your Nitrite drops to zero.

On the day when you test for Nitrite and it is absolutely zero (approx 2 to 3 weeks) don't add any more ammonia. Do a test for ammonia just to make sure that is zero too.

Do a 75% water change to bring down the Nitrates. (Remember do not use a dechlorinator that removes ammonia!)

Add your fish! All at once to a good stocking level of about 1" of fish body length per US Gallon.
Don't worry the filter will be able to take it as it has a good strong well established colony of bacteria.

Check your Nitrites over the next few days just to make sure, but they should stay fine.

It would take a heavy fish load of over 2" of fish per US Gallon to produce the amount of ammonia that you have been adding, so keeping the water good for the fish you have added will be no problem for your filter after this method of cycling.

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

OMG H2O... I wish I would have heard about that a week ago, it sounds so much easier than setting up your tank ... buying fish ... and praying that nothing dies before the cycle is complete ! Thank you so much for that information, I'll definately try that next time.

My water level is starting to drop because of evaporation (probably a gallon or so) which wouldn't bother me except that my power filter pumps 300gph... it's creating tons of turbulence which seems to be upsetting my white clouds . Is it safe to replenish the water with de-chlorinated water so early in the cycle?

 

[H2O]

Adding the water will not hurt aything.

 

[dolphin]

Hi YngUrbanCMH

Back to your initial question.

Ammonia is more toxic, the higher the pH is, but the bacteria grow quicker, the higher the pH is.
As you all ready have nitrite readings, the bacteria that you added are doing there job, and the ammonia is been converted to nitrite. You should soon see the nitrate level rising.

As you need to add more water, a small water change at this point will not hurt, about 10-15%

HTH

 

[pondfreak4365]

H2O or anyone else,
I have been trying the 'fishless cycle' for 4 weeks with no success yet. How long does the fishless cycle take? I still have a 1+ reading on Nitrite, Ammonia registers at 0 to .25.


Impatient in Texas

 

[gadazobe]

How big is your tank? If your ammonia levels are 0 and your nitrite 1+ it seems as if you're nearly there. Another few days should see your ammonia and nitrite at 0. Well done for doing a fishless cycle.

 

[pondfreak4365]

It's a 55 gallon, still registering NO2...I'll try to be patient

 

[lordmoose]

I'm cycling with 3 zebra danios, 3 tiger barbs, 3 serpae tetra, 3 yucitan black mollies, and 6 white clouds (the expert at my local aquarium shop assured me that they were small enough and hearty enough to survive

EEP thats far too many fish to cycle with!

That really wasn't good advice the "expert" gave you

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

Believe it or not lordmoose, I didn't loose any of them. I guess I was lucky... REALLY lucky

 

[smb]

Believe it or not lordmoose, I didn't loose any of them. I guess I was lucky... REALLY lucky

They may be alive but you had a lot of ammonia in there with all those fish. Any fish that is involved with cycling a tank is going to be unhealthy and live maybe live a shorter life.

That's why the only way to cycle a tank is using a fishless cycle. It's faster, more stable and you can add all the fish you want right after.

 

[YngUrbanCMH]

Thanks SMB... I wish I would have joined the forum before I started cycleing that tank so I knew about it. I was lucky enough to find Bio Spira, and it was relatively cheap for my 30 gallon (well cheaper than losing 4 or 5 fish at least!). I didn't have the results that I've heard advertised though, it did lower my ammonia and nitrite levels short term but they started to rise again about 2 weeks afterwards. I talked to the guys at the store I bought it from, and they had similar results when they tested it on a tank of feeder guppies.... lost half the tank. Because of that they've been really hesitant to sell it hard, but their a chain with marinelabs as one of their primary suppliers so I guess don't have much of a choice?

I did the fishless cycle on my 10 gallon, and it only took about 2.5 weeks to complete! I printed off a copy of H2O's article on it and gave it to a friend that works at my lfs, he's recomending it to alot of customers.

BTW, I feel like such an idiot! I had been doing almost daily water changes trying to lower my nitrate levels... couldn't figure out why the heck I couldn't get them under 40ppm! Today on a whim I tested my tap water, right of the tap it's 40ppm... I had been doing all these water changes for nothing. Today I'm going to pick up 20 gallons of RODI water at the grocery store and start using that... I don't have room in my apartment for a reverse osmosis unit.