Cycled Vs Mature Tank

[Miss Wiggle]

a little while back someone posted a realyl good definition of the difference between a 'cycled' and 'mature' tank. Had someone asking but I can't find it. It was to do with all the surfaces beign covered with soemthing or other.

If it was you can you post it again or anyone who remembers it and knows who posted it that'd be really useful to help me find it. thanks

 

[andywg]

There was a definition about all the surfaces beiung covered in some mulm which somehow protected the aquarium, though I am not in total agreement with that.

A mature tank is generally considered at least 6 months old and has "settled" in to the point that it is very unlikely to experience any swings in parameters (KH and pH being prime examples).

A cycled tank just means there is enough bacteria to deal with the ammonia and nitrite being produced by the aquarium. It is still possible at this time to have factors cause swings in other parameters.

In marine, a mature tank will also indicate there is a healthy population of microfauna present in the tank. This may occur in FW, though I am unsure.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thanks Andy, can you remember who did that definition abotu the surfaces beign covered in mulm, i'd like to know more and see why you don't agree with it totally!!

how does the 6 month 'settling period' actually stop you getting swings in things like pH? Surley things like the buffering capacity of your water are at least relativley consistent and any fluctuations would probably come from fluctuations in your tap water. This would be the same weatehr the tank's 6 months old or not wouldn't it?

 

[BigIan]

thanks Andy, can you remember who did that definition abotu the surfaces beign covered in mulm, i'd like to know more and see why you don't agree with it totally!!

how does the 6 month 'settling period' actually stop you getting swings in things like pH? Surley things like the buffering capacity of your water are at least relativley consistent and any fluctuations would probably come from fluctuations in your tap water. This would be the same weatehr the tank's 6 months old or not wouldn't it?

A substance will only react so much. bogwood for instance will releace tannins, and also i think soak up kh, thusly leaving ph srops
Gravel substrates can have all maner of stones in them some can be hughly alkaline and so will raise the ph.

but over time the effects are diluted out with water changes and the effects of the reacting agents (wood releaseing tannis or gravel and calcium) wear off as the agents die out...

also there are hundred if not thousands of complex biological reactions going on in the tank at any one time that all play a part. and it can take time for these processes to develop

 

[Squid]

a little while back someone posted a realyl good definition of the difference between a 'cycled' and 'mature' tank. Had someone asking but I can't find it. It was to do with all the surfaces beign covered with soemthing or other.

If it was you can you post it again or anyone who remembers it and knows who posted it that'd be really useful to help me find it. thanks

There is this one which also has a link to one that i started over a year ago..

The quote from CFC is quite a good definition.

Hope it helps.
Squid

 

[Miss Wiggle]

good point Ian, hadn't thought about the effects of anything in the aquarium dying off over time.

thanks Squid that was what I was looking for.

I'll post that here so people don't have to hunt through twelvty billion links to find the right bit!

Over time in any tank a substance known as bio film builds up on everything in the tank, stick your hand in a well established tank and run your fingers across the apperently clean glass, it feels kind of slimey. This film is a collection of bacteria, algea and microscopic organisms that survive by taking nutrients from the water and breaking them down before they can reach levels that are harmfull, a kind of organic filtration system that only time can provide. The older the tank is the more layers of bio film there are and the more bomb proof the tank becomes, ive had 4 year old tanks which are heavily stocked where ive forgotten to plug the filter back in over night and not even seen a nitrite spike.

come on then Andy, why don't you fully agree with this, you didn't post in the original topic.

 

[andywg]

I just don't see the bio-film as being the reason the tank becomes more stable.

I far more prefer the points made by Ian, that there are a huge number of chemical reactions going on that will settle down over time.

 

[smmetz]

When I started reading this thread, that "biological exclusion" post came to mind. I see Tolak posted a link to it at the end of the thread that Squid linked.

Anyway, here is that link. It is saying that a mature tank is different than a cycled one because it has fully developed levels of bacteria that are not harmfull to the fish. Once fully established, these bacteria compete for resources with any new "bad" bacteria introduced to the tank, making it harder for bad bacteria to really thrive in the tank. I guess the theory is kind of like how weeds don't grow as well when your lawn has an established, thick, healthy layer of grass.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...gical+exclusion

 

[BigIan]

As i said though its not just a question of bacteria, although that does lay a huge part in it.
your decor, substrate plants and equipment all need time to bed in,
Bog wood will leach tannis for months, slightly lowering your pH.
various stone can also react,

 

[rdd1952]

The key question concerning the difference between cycled and mature is concerning delicate fish and when it is safe to add them. It is generally said that neons, for example, are delicate and need a mature tank. Does that mean you can't add them for 6 months or do they just need a cycled tank that is devoid of ammonia and nitrite.

Even fish like neons can adapt to the subtle pH swings associated with driftwood, etc. but won't handle the toxins well. I feel certain that most people who have neons, angels and other fish that are considered delicate didn't wait for 6 months or more to get them. After all, how do you know that your tank is "officially" mature? It's simply guess work. I don't know of any way to measure it.

Edit: What is really odd about the thread on Newbie Mistakes by spanishguy111 that includes the part on Biological Exclusion (linked to in one of the links on this thread) is that he wasn't around for very long (joined Sept. 2005, last active Oct. 2005). I remember him though because in that short time, he gave some of the worst advice I had ever seen and then wrote a great article which probably should have been pinned.

 

[thegnu]

i think a 'mature tank' is one that has had a chance to grow enough algae for a pleco or otto, some fish that eats algae. thats the only time i would suggest that a tank needs to be 'mature'. it's not the water because you must continuously do water changes, so a tank that is 'cycled' and is say 6-8 weeks old should be right to home neons

 

[rdd1952]

i think a 'mature tank' is one that has had a chance to grow enough algae for a pleco or otto, some fish that eats algae. thats the only time i would suggest that a tank needs to be 'mature'. it's not the water because you must continuously do water changes, so a tank that is 'cycled' and is say 6-8 weeks old should be right to home neons

Most every tank that goes through a fishless cycle is covered in algae by the time it is done, plenty to feed a pleco or a school of otos. Brown algae is almost a certainty at the end of cycling because of the enormous amount of nitrates in the water before the big water change. After that is cleared up and gone, some tanks, especially well planted ones, never have algae again.

 

[Gatorbait]

i think a 'mature tank' is one that has had a chance to grow enough algae for a pleco or otto, some fish that eats algae. thats the only time i would suggest that a tank needs to be 'mature'. it's not the water because you must continuously do water changes, so a tank that is 'cycled' and is say 6-8 weeks old should be right to home neons

Most every tank that goes through a fishless cycle is covered in algae by the time it is done, plenty to feed a pleco or a school of otos. Brown algae is almost a certainty at the end of cycling because of the enormouns amount of nitrates in the water before the big water change. After that is cleared up and gone, some tanks, especially well planted ones, never have algae again.

Ahhh, you beat me to it. lol

Nice post.