Culling?

[Sondan]

There are many different types of foods to feed to larger fish. They have pellets for large cichlids and other carnivore fish.

Guppy what do you think is in the pellets?? The second ingredient is fish. And in my Omega One brand dry flake fish food the very first ingredient is fish. So I guess I don't see the differenece if I feed them the fish or I have someone else make the fish pretty and into nice colorful flake then I feed them the fish. It is just a fact of nature that fish eat fish so why do people act like it is so bad?
As for the living conditions of feeders I agree with you...they are usually not well cared for. That is why I have my own guppy tank that I use for feeding my Oscar.
I guess I don't understand how using a fish to feed another fish is some how wrong but to just flush them down the toilet is some how ok?
Signed,
Sondan
P.S. Guppy make sure you don't take this personal....I hope we are just debating here!! If WE are not the please just let me know and I will stop replying. But I am enjoying this topic. Thanks

 

[Jennifer_R]

In professional Guppy breading, culling is recommended.

Start with the stunt growers. You will notice some Fry will grow larger than others, it's the smaller ones often never live very long. In nature, if you are worried about "killing them", the smaller ones wouldn't be around for long anyway. I have noticed a few of my own Fry have deformed tails or missing fins - those are the first to go.

Feed them to other fish you may have. Your Mama and Papa Guppies are prone to cannibalism; just throw 'em back into the parental trial. I have to cull mine. Luckily, I have a fish (Amazon Leaf Fish) that eats my Guppies, he has to or he'll die. My Parrot Cichlid also likes the tasty adolescent Guppies.

 

[guppymonkey]

I didn't know that fish food for large fish was made up of fish as Sondan pointed out. I have looked at some of the different types of food and must not have noticed it. I have seen large cichlid food made up of different types of worms, with meal and vitamins and "color enhancing" formulas. OH, and just to let you know I am not taking this personally, its quite interesting I think to discuss.

I think it was opcn that said that the shock from being eaten stops the fish from feeling anything. I am not sure that this is true. Anyone that has been seriously injured (like breaking a bone or something like that) knows that it hurts! I remember when I was in elementary school I broke my collar bone wrestling, and it really hurt. Time has tempered my memories of the break but I remember screaming in pain for what seemed like hours (and was probably more like 30 minutes until my mom took me to the doctor). Having never been eaten I can't say how much it would hurt but I am thinking that it probably would hurt. I think that opcn was talking about shock and I don't know if fish undergo shock. I have no idea how it would affect the nervous system of guppies. I know from cutting myself that shock can distract me from the pain but the pain usually comes almost immediately. There is a difference between cutting myself with a sharp knife and being ripped apart or swallowed by an animal but I obviously wouldn't know the difference in feeling without personal experience.

 

[Jennifer_R]

My personal feelings are that I am responsible for my fish. Like any pet their well being (or lack there of) is all up to me.

=>>I would rather that my fish die immediately by being put in ice cold water than to be eaten. <==

==>Some would say that its a waste but I personally would rather flush the fish than have it devoured.<==

Not that it matters I don't even know anyone that has need of feeder fish.

Fish experience shock. Much like when a pregnant female Guppy is fished out of her somber home and placed in a breeder net. Or when you have to catch any fish, for that matter. Placing them in freezing water has got to be as bad as feeding them to another fish TO SURVIVE!

But you know, they calm down - or they don't. The memory of a fish isn't like ours. They won't remember the Fry-hood accident. It's been said, actually, their memories are short term - 3 seconds.
"Oh my gawd, I'm stuck in a bowl." Three seconds pass... "Oh my gawd I'm stuck in a bowl." ...repeat...
See where I am going? It won’t matter, whether you freeze shock them, flush them or feed them to another fish. You want to let them grow up, and decide then, they'll die... little fry. (LOL - I rhymed)

Don't get me wrong, I think you have every right to help end their life the way a good protector can. But, I think your ways to end their life is no different, in feelings others have, for the decisions they make to feed their fish to a bigger fish.

Culling is culling - how ever you take care of business.

*This reply is light hearted, and in compliance with discussion.

 

[Opcn]

I'm reletivley sure that they do go into shock otherwise the pain of having a fin nipped at would cripple them and they wouldn't be able to doge pike chichilids and killiefish in the wild (so either they need to not feel pain or have a shock response). When you cut yourself you felt it probably after 3 seconds but the guppy is gone in about a half a second Its not like when a bear or wolf eats a human and they are alive for a few minuets while they are eating them. besides the slowest method of euthenasia is still faster than being outcompeated by the other guppies.

Opcn

Oh and If you are breading for specific traits you will probably end up inbreading a bit and have lots of defective guppies that you need to remove to prevent suffering of future generations.

Edit:You culd avoid culling by putting all the disabled fry of all ages into a big (100 gal) tank with lots of plants and hiding places then maby even seperate it out into three sectons with deviders(male, female, and yet to be determened)

 

[leck85]

this topic will always get a lot of debating..... personally.... i dont like killing anything ..... if i get guppies with messed up tails or whatever i try to keep them alive as hard as i can... im always on the side of the underdog..... if your a pro guppy breeder breeding to make money then i can see it i guess... even tho id never do it...... but whatever choices u make u have to live with lol.....

who would want to kill him --->

 

[Opcn]

It's not like you are killing thm in a blood sport It's something that is done for the fish not to them.

Opcn

 

[Sondan]

I guess I see this differently as a wildlife biologist. We (most of the wildlifers I know) do not remotely understand the animal rights group like PETA who say killing animals is wrong. I mean if you don't eat meat that is fine, but to think you didn't kill any animals to get that vegan food is crazy. If a person only eats fruits and vegetables because they think killing animals is wrong I would ask them how many animals died to give them their food then? I mean every time a farmer plants a field he kills snakes, birds, rabbits, and any other animals that maybe living there. If he does not kill them directly with this machinery then how many die from him destroying their homes and where they eat? If you wear clothes someone had to harvest the plant fibers like cotton to make them. Since people do not harvest cotton by hand then a machine had to run the field cutting the cotton off. Well when you run the machine to harvest, the farmer ran over or chopped up how many grasshoppers??? Well if the grasshopper is dead now,,,what does the bird eat? If the bird has nothing to eat,,,what does the fox eat??? To me this is no different then feeding fish to other fish. It seems the more we become "civilized" the less and less we understand our world.
Killing is wrong but hunting is a way of life.
Signed,
Sondan

 

[Opcn]

Yup the only way for humans to stop hurting other animal populations all together if for us never to be born (tell that to the mormons with an average of 6.38 children per cople) and as we all know we don't have that choice. The fact is that kind of lifestyle is cowardly they will kill animals but only if they don't need to do it themselfes. Finaly someone who aggrease with me about them.

Opcn

 

[De Plano]

I think if you have the guppies, and you don't want them, they may as well be fed to another fish. Otherwise your killing one fish just to have another killed to feed to the other fish. Oceans are getting pretty over fished already,(and side thought, are they feeding saltwater fish to freshwater fish?). The ones that are caught in the nets for fish food are going through a lot more than the one that gets gulped. I imaging feeder guppies are being suffocated, I don't know how many actually get chewed. If it is an oscar I don't think they would bother chewing a guppy, sometimes but not usually.

The vegan thing is a matter of scale. There are animals killed while raising crops, but if you eat meat (which I do eat A LOT of) those animals are still being killed. Then you give the food to another animal to kill. So there is all the energy (water, fertilizer, harvesting and transporting the feed) to get the food to some animal to kill. So yes, I think the vegans have some logic, they just need to stay the hell away from my ice cream But I digress.

My $.02

 

[snotirl]

Getting albion fish is rare i breed my silver mollies once and i got 2 of them albions u see it only happens occassionaly, so u could never end up with them it just depends

 

[Opcn]

guppy albinos are kinda wierd If you get full albinos they can come out sterile.

Opcn

 

[guppymonkey]

I am not into the whole vegan thing (I like meat and fish actually so I guess I could be considered a hypocrite! ). Its just hard for me to consider feeding my fish to other fish. It would kind of be like if grandpa had alzheimers and instead of taking him off of his feeding tube to let him die we fed him to the lions at the zoo because they eat meat. Thats how it would feel to me, almost like a family member being eaten.

I am not trying to breed albinos to sell. I found out its impossible to get into the business of selling fish. Unless you have hundreds of tanks (and all the time in the world to deal with the tanks) you wouldn't have the amount of fish needed to make money on it. I just want to end up with albinos for myself. So if they end up sterile its not that big a deal although I guess the fish would be pretty sad about it.