Couple of questions from a beginner

[JPW003]

Hi all
I am brand new to fishkeeping and so far really enjoying it. I have purchased an Aquael starter tank 54L with filter, heater (set to 24 degrees) and 6w LED which came with it. I cycled the tank for just over two weeks without fish, introducing 8 small to medium shop-labelled "Easy-Care" plants after a week. Yesterday I added 5 neon tetra's and they're doing well, or at least I think they are and they survived the night! My water is really good (I think!), and I test very regularly - although I live in a very soft water area, I've increased the hardness to roughly 7 and using test strips everything is coming out as "green" and good.
2 questions

1). I'm not sure if I need to do something about the lighting as I have plants. I feel I don't have enough lighting power/wattage (on 10 hours a day currently), but on the other hand I think I have easy-care plants and Neon Tetra's who I think don't like it too bright? Should I do anything about the lighting or is it fine to leave as it is in your opinion?
2). At some stage, I want to add more fish. I would like to add more Neon Tetras (as I think 5 is a low number and they need more friends, but this is what I was advised to start off with by the shop, then add more), and also add some little Cory catfish (think I've said that right!), shrimps and snails. This is my end goal so far, and would be interested to hear your opinions or quantities and when to add them over the coming weeks/months? Or if this combo wouldn't work!

Apologies for the long post and thanks so much for any replies, I'm really new to this but like I said loving it!

J

 

[JxsPxxle]

Hi all
I am brand new to fishkeeping and so far really enjoying it. I have purchased an Aquael starter tank 54L with filter, heater (set to 24 degrees) and 6w LED which came with it. I cycled the tank for just over two weeks without fish, introducing 8 small to medium shop-labelled "Easy-Care" plants after a week. Yesterday I added 5 neon tetra's and they're doing well, or at least I think they are and they survived the night! My water is really good (I think!), and I test very regularly - although I live in a very soft water area, I've increased the hardness to roughly 7 and using test strips everything is coming out as "green" and good.
2 questions

1). I'm not sure if I need to do something about the lighting as I have plants. I feel I don't have enough lighting power/wattage (on 10 hours a day currently), but on the other hand I think I have easy-care plants and Neon Tetra's who I think don't like it too bright? Should I do anything about the lighting or is it fine to leave as it is in your opinion?
2). At some stage, I want to add more fish. I would like to add more Neon Tetras (as I think 5 is a low number and they need more friends, but this is what I was advised to start off with by the shop, then add more), and also add some little Cory catfish (think I've said that right!), shrimps and snails. This is my end goal so far, and would be interested to hear your opinions or quantities and when to add them over the coming weeks/months? Or if this combo wouldn't work!

Apologies for the long post and thanks so much for any replies, I'm really new to this but like I said loving it!

J

Personally I would leave the light. If you experience any issues in the future then
consider changing it.

You could easily keep a group of 10 neons in a tank this size. A group of about 6 pygmy cory catfish would also be sufficient. As for snails I would recommend some sort of nerite, however they have a large bio load.

You could keep a decent amount of a small shrimp in this tank with these fish (about 8) for example cherry shrimp, or yellow shrimp would look great.

I would wait for a week or two before adding more fish to make sure everything goes as planned with the neons.

 

[JPW003]

Thank you JxsPxxle - I was thinking two weeks so good to hear. Numbers sound great too

 

[Essjay]

although I live in a very soft water area, I've increased the hardness to roughly 7 and using test strips everything is coming out as "green" and good

Do you mean your pH is 7 or the GH is 7? Please do not any any chemicals. Neons need soft water with a low pH.

if you are using test strips, you need to buy an ammonia tester asap. This is not included on test strips and is the first thing to show up when water is not perfect.
Two weeks isn't nearly long enough to cycle a tank. The first part of this link explains what cycling is, though you can ignore the second part as you now have fish. https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/
Unless you added ammonia, you didn't cycle the tank.

Plants do help by using ammonia as fertiliser, but you may not have enough, or as you have only just put the pants in, they may not be growing actively enough yet. The only way to be totally sure is by reguarly testing the water for ammonia and nitrite, and doing a water change every time either of them show a reading above zero.

I would also ignore the 'green' levels of the test strips. The only good readings are zero ammonia, zero nitrite, nitrate under 20 ppm.
pH, GH and KH need to be whatever the fish in the tank need. A high pH and GH are bad for soft water fish, but good for hard water fish, and vice versa.

 

[JPW003]

Ok essjay, thanks for your reply.
My pH is just under 7 (6.8 on test strip), GH is 10 and KH is the 7. All readings from the test strip and confirmed by store, as below.

Having read your reply, I clearly haven't then cycled the tank. I've never added ammonia, just de-chlorinating and the recommended plant fertiliser once. I added a very small bit of fish food a few days before the fish arrived.

I have two local, established fish stockists who have been helping and they've done 2 water tests in-store for me. The first identified very soft water so I was advised to increase this with JBL Aquadur, which I did. Yesterday, after a second in-store test, the KH was identified as 7 and I was recommended the neon's as a starter to the tank and purchased the five aforementioned fishes.

If I follow your advice correctly, the fish are now going to start producing ammonia, and as the tank isn't cycled, there's potentially not enough good bacteria to fight it? My readings for Nitrite and Nitrate are zero which I believe is good news, but now needs careful monitoring. So I need to buy an ammonia test kit.

Thank you for the info; I rarely trawl the net for advice as it can be so conflicting. I wish I'd been advised in person to add ammonia to the tank at the start as you are genuinely the first person to advise this as as a beginner, you just don't know this. But it makes sense for a fishless cycle, and I can only assume that the advice I've been given was assumed with the cycle to include fish.

Thanks,

J

 

[JPW003]

Just as an add on, the de-chlorinator is Prime (Seachem) which I believe includes ammonia stabilisers? This has been added in the correct quantities to every water change and from the very start.

 

[Essjay]

Ignore the KH, it is GH that is important. If your GH is 10 that's a bit on the hard side for soft water fish.
Those readings you gave - is that tap water or tank water after the Aquadur was added? if it's tank water, can oyu test your tap water please. And it is useful to know how much nitrate is in your tap water.


The most important lesson in fish keeping, one we've all hard to learn and often that hard way, is don't believe anything a shop worker says. Soft water fish like neons need soft water. Please stop adding the Aquadur, neons will be fine without it. Just do water changes with dechlorinated tap water and the Aquadur will be diluted at every water change till there is none left.
And shops do not believe in fishless cycling which is why none of them mention it.



Now you have found the forum we will help you keep your fish happy.
The first thing to advise you is to test the tank water every day for ammonia and nitrite. Whenever you see a reading for either of them above zero, you need to do a water change to get them down to zero. Seachem Prime detoxfies both ammonia and nitrite but they both still show up in the test. The effect lasts for about 24 hours after which time they become toxic again. You still need to do the water changes whenever there is a non-zero reading, but prime will keep the fish safe till the next water change.
And hopefully, your plants will soon become established.

 

[JPW003]

Thanks again!
Those readings were tank water.
I've just tested my tap water with test strips and I make NO3 about 10 and NO2 at 0.5. Both mg/l ppm. Not sure what they mean at this stage to be honest, but any further preventative measures greatly appreciated! I'm told I live in a very soft water area in Cheshire.

Thank you

J

 

[Essjay]

Tap water nitrate is important to know because we need to make sure tank nitrate never gets higher than 20 ppm. With tap water nitrate of 10 ppm, you should be able to manage that easily. Some regions have tap nitrate of almost the legal limits of 50 ppm.

Your soft water is ideally suited to soft water fish. It's only if you wanted to keep hard water fish that you'd need to add something. I would definitely stop adding anything (except dechlorinator and plant food) and let your water changes gradually flush the Aquadur out of the tank - you shouldn't make large changes to water chemistry in one go.
Neons are soft water fish, they'll be fine in your tap water. Once there is no sign of any ammonia or nitrite in the tank water, I would get a few more neons. They are shoaling fish, and while 6 is the minimum number for shoaling fish, more is always better.

 

[JPW003]

Thank you. Will do.
By plant food, does this mean plant fertiliser? I have Microbe-Lift nitrogen Fertiliser in a green bottle. If so, how often?

And where can I find out about other species of soft water fish? Are Cory's, Shrimps and Snails suitable for soft water, as I'd like to have all these longer term, and once the water is fine of course.

 

[Essjay]

The best place for researching fish is https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/

Cories are soft water fish. With a 54 litre tank I would look at one of the three dwarf species - Corydoras pygmaeus (pygmy cory), C. habrosus (salt & pepper cory, not to be confused with the much larger peppered cory) and C. hastatus. Pygmies are the most common in shops, and sometimes habrosus. I've only ever seen hastatus once. These dwarf cories all need a group of 8 to 10 and sand on the bottom of the tank rather than gravel.

Red cherry shrimps are fine in soft water. I have some in GH 5, though yours is probably a bit softer than mime. They are also the easiest shrimps to keep.

Snails might be a bit more difficult as their shells can erode in soft water particularly if the pH is below 7. You could try putting a piece of cuttlefish bone in for for them, the thing they sell for budgies.



Plants need more than just nitrogen fertiliser - the fish will provide that as ammonia. They also need trace elements just like garden plants. The best one is Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Tank. There are several products sold as Flourish, make sure it's the right one. https://seachem.com/flourish.php

 

[JPW003]

Thanks so much for all the advice, really helpful. Will get the stuff from your links.
I have gravel substrate so that's a shame as I really like them. It's small gravel, but gravel nonetheless!

J

 

[Essjay]

When you use Seriously Fish, look for fish that are suitable for the size of your tank, and fish that have your hardness in their hardness range.
You can pin down your hardness by looking on your water company's website. You need a number and the unit of measurement - UK water companies often use some odd units and we have to convert them to those used in fish keeping. If you can't find it, tell me the name of the water company and I'll have a look.

 

[JPW003]

In summary... (United Utilities)

Analysis	Typical value	UK/EU limit	Units
Hardness Level	Mod. Soft
Hardness Clarke	5.74		Clarke
Aluminium	<9.07	200	µg Al/l
Calcium	26.4		mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total	0.64		mg/l
Residual chlorine - Free	0.57		mg/l
Coliform bacteria	0	0	number/100ml
Colour	<0.722	20	mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity	258	2500	uS/cm at 20oC
Copper	0.0192	2	mg Cu/l
E.coli	0	0	number/100ml
Iron	<27.7	200	µg Fe/l
Lead	<0.573	10	µg Pb/l
Magnesium	3.95		mg Mg/l
Manganese	<0.916	50	µg Mn/l
Nitrate	7.55	50	mg NO3/l
Sodium	37.7	200	mg Na/l

 

[JPW003]

In full!