Cotton mouth disease on fish

[Sgooosh]

Hello, recently because of a new fish that wasnt quarantined for long enough, some livebearers in the main tank have gotten cotton mouth. how do I treat this with the things I have?
- a tiny bit of seachem paraguard (maybe 2 doses left)
- lots of ich x
- melafix
- aquarium salt (cannot dose in main tank, but can do salt baths and such)

will 25% water changes every day work? or more than that?

 

[Sgooosh]

edit:
i'm willing to purchase products that I can get that are snail safe as well. i have a lot of pest snails and i think one nerite and one mystery
does anyone know if
FURAN 2 or metheleyne blue will work?
or EM ERYTHROMYCIN

 

[Pt5251]

edit:
i'm willing to purchase products that I can get that are snail safe as well. i have a lot of pest snails and i think one nerite and one mystery
does anyone know if
FURAN 2 or metheleyne blue will work?
or EM ERYTHROMYCIN

The only thing I can say worked for me was pimafix, it worked when I caught it right away before but I’m not sure about any of the other things. I believe it is snail safe but I am not 100% sure

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The cure for Columnaris is an antibiotic. If you think Pimafix worked, you probably did not have columnaris.

This is one of the most common diseases we see in fish whether they are aquacultured for food or ornamental use. As a result there has been extensive research into this disease. There have been studies to find alternative to antibiotics which are often not permitted when it comes to food fish. I have seen papers on all sorts of things. Here is just one example.

P. Rattanachaikunsopon & P. Phumkhachorn (2010) Use of Asiatic Pennywort Centella asiatica Aqueous Extract as a Bath Treatment to Control Columnaris in Nile Tilapia, Journal of Aquatic Animal Health, 22:1, 14-20, DOI: 10.1577/H09-021.1

Abstract

To develop antibiotic-free and chemical-free aquaculture, it is necessary to have natural substances to control diseases of aquatic animals. The aim of this study was to find an herb having therapeutic effect against columnaris, a fish disease caused by the bacterium Flavobacterium columnare. Of all tested herbs (including kalmegh Andrographis paniculata, candle bush Cassia alata, Asiatic pennywort Centella asiatica, mangosteen Garcinia mangostana, pomegranate Punica granatum, and guava Psidium guajava), the aqueous extract of Asiatic pennywort exhibited the strongest antimicrobial activity against F. columnare; the minimal inhibitory concentration was 31.25 μg/mL. It was also found to have a bactericidal effect on F. columnare. When experimental bath exposures of Nile tilapia Oreochromis niloticus to F. columnare were performed, the median lethal dose was determined to be 2.37 × 105 colony forming units/mL. For in vivo trials, six different concentrations (0, 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 mg/L) of Asiatic pennywort aqueous extract were used as bath treatments to control experimentally induced columnaris in Nile tilapia. The decrease in fish mortality was dose dependent, and at a concentration of 100 mg/L no mortality or adverse effects were noted in the infected fish. This study suggests that Asiatic pennywort aqueous extract has the potential to control disease caused by F. columnare.

There are also efforts to develop a vaccine against this disease.

Fortunately, in our tanks we have no consideration that our fish that will be eaten by people. So in the states, where fish medications are pretty easy to find, the best bet is an antibiotic.

Oxytetracycline still works adequately against most cases of Flavobacterium columnare (columnaris disease).

This is an OK article on this topic. Some of it is clearly off the mark. I suggest you completely ignore the Step 1 suggestion to move infected fish to an H tank to treat. It is essential to treat an entire tank which has columnaris because it is highly contagious. I wish that section of the paper did not exist because it is dead wrong in that advice. The most important part of the article is the observation that "Many expert fish keepers recommend a combination of nitrofurazone and kanamycin as the best treatment for an outbreak of columnaris." Step 4 discusses this and suggests where to get the two meds.
https://fishlab.com/columnaris/

Whatever medication you choose, be sure you research it a bit. The reason is that, in general, there are 3 ways to administer antibiotics to fish:
1. The most effective way is via injection. This is not practical for most hobbyists.
2. Mixed in with food. But this cannot work when a fish has stopped eating.
3. Added to the water. However, some antibiotics are only minimally effective when administered in the way.

So make sure you are aware of how most effectively to administer any med you might use.

edited to fix typos

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures of the fish so we can confirm the disease?

Salt is the first go to, especially for livebearers.

Why can't you add salt to your tank?
I'm sure you have seen my posts on salt before and it's safe for plants and everything in the aquarium as long as you don't overdose.

Salt baths are bad for fish because you stress and damage the fish every time you try to catch it and this helps bacteria and fungus spread. If you don't treat the main tank, there is no point putting a fish back into the main tank because the disease is in the main tank.

Methylene Blue kills filter bacteria and stains things blue so should be used in a quarantine tank.

--------------------

SALT
Using Salt to Treat Fish Health Issues.
For some fish diseases you can use salt (sodium chloride) to treat the ailment rather than using a chemical based medication. Salt is relatively safe and is regularly used in the aquaculture industry to treat food fish for diseases. Salt has been successfully used to treat minor fungal and bacterial infections, as well as a number of external protozoan infections. Salt alone will not treat whitespot (Ichthyophthirius) or Velvet (Oodinium) but will treat most other types of external protozoan infections in freshwater fishes. Salt can treat early stages of hole in the head disease caused by Hexamita but it needs to be done in conjunction with cleaning up the tank. Salt can also be used to treat anchor worm (Lernaea), fish lice (Argulus), gill flukes (Dactylogyrus), skin flukes (Gyrodactylus), Epistylis, Microsporidian and Spironucleus infections.

You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Back in the fold]

@Colin_T Beware of the salt police . Huh @GaryE

 

[Sgooosh]

 

[Sgooosh]

Pictures of the fish so we can confirm the disease?

Salt is the first go to, especially for livebearers.

Why can't you add salt to your tank?
I'm sure you have seen my posts on salt before and it's safe for plants and everything in the aquarium as long as you don't overdose.

Salt baths are bad for fish because you stress and damage the fish every time you try to catch it and this helps bacteria and fungus spread. If you don't treat the main tank, there is no point putting a fish back into the main tank because the disease is in the main tank.

Methylene Blue kills filter bacteria and stains things blue so should be used in a quarantine tank.

--------------------

SALT
Using Salt to Treat Fish Health Issues.
For some fish diseases you can use salt (sodium chloride) to treat the ailment rather than using a chemical based medication. Salt is relatively safe and is regularly used in the aquaculture industry to treat food fish for diseases. Salt has been successfully used to treat minor fungal and bacterial infections, as well as a number of external protozoan infections. Salt alone will not treat whitespot (Ichthyophthirius) or Velvet (Oodinium) but will treat most other types of external protozoan infections in freshwater fishes. Salt can treat early stages of hole in the head disease caused by Hexamita but it needs to be done in conjunction with cleaning up the tank. Salt can also be used to treat anchor worm (Lernaea), fish lice (Argulus), gill flukes (Dactylogyrus), skin flukes (Gyrodactylus), Epistylis, Microsporidian and Spironucleus infections.

You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

the reason I cant add salt is first that I don't have enough, and also that I have cories who are very sensitive and snails, and 3 weeks of water change every day seems like too much for me to handle with school and everything going on.
Yesterday there were a few fish, now there is only one fish who has it. I treated with a malachite green mixture, paraguard seachem

 

[Sgooosh]

The cure for Columnaris is an antibiotic. If you think Pimafix worked, you probably did not have columnaris.

This is one of the most common diseases we see in fish whether they are aquacultured for food or ornamental use. As a result there has been extensive research into this disease. There have been studies to find alternative to antibiotics which are often not permitted when it comes to food fish. I have seen papers on all sorts of things. Here is just one example.

P. Rattanachaikunsopon & P. Phumkhachorn (2010) Use of Asiatic Pennywort Centella asiatica Aqueous Extract as a Bath Treatment to Control Columnaris in Nile Tilapia, Journal of Aquatic Animal Health, 22:1, 14-20, DOI: 10.1577/H09-021.1

Abstract


There are also efforts to develop a vaccine against this disease.

Fortunately, in our tanks we have no consideration that our fish that will be eaten by people. So in the states, where fish medications are pretty easy to find, the best bet is an antibiotic.



This is an OK article on this topic. Some of it is clearly off the mark. I suggest you completely ignore the Step 1 suggestion to move infected fish to an H tank to treat. It is essential to treat an entire tank which has columnaris because it is highly contagious. I wish that section of the paper did not exist because it is dead wrong in that advice. The most important part of the article is the observation that "Many expert fish keepers recommend a combination of nitrofurazone and kanamycin as the best treatment for an outbreak of columnaris." Step 4 discusses this and suggests where to get the two meds.
https://fishlab.com/columnaris/

Whatever medication you choose, be sure you research it a bit. The reason is that, in general, there are 3 ways to administer antibiotics to fish:
1. The most effective way is via injection. This is not practical for most hobbyists.
2. Mixed in with food. But this cannot work when a fish has stopped eating.
3. Added to the water. However, some antibiotics are only minimally effective when administered in the way.

So make sure you are aware of how most effectively to administer any med you might use.

edited to fix typos

I'll try to find some of the listed products in the link.
thanks

 

[Sgooosh]

The cure for Columnaris is an antibiotic. If you think Pimafix worked, you probably did not have columnaris.

This is one of the most common diseases we see in fish whether they are aquacultured for food or ornamental use. As a result there has been extensive research into this disease. There have been studies to find alternative to antibiotics which are often not permitted when it comes to food fish. I have seen papers on all sorts of things. Here is just one example.

P. Rattanachaikunsopon & P. Phumkhachorn (2010) Use of Asiatic Pennywort Centella asiatica Aqueous Extract as a Bath Treatment to Control Columnaris in Nile Tilapia, Journal of Aquatic Animal Health, 22:1, 14-20, DOI: 10.1577/H09-021.1

Abstract


There are also efforts to develop a vaccine against this disease.

Fortunately, in our tanks we have no consideration that our fish that will be eaten by people. So in the states, where fish medications are pretty easy to find, the best bet is an antibiotic.



This is an OK article on this topic. Some of it is clearly off the mark. I suggest you completely ignore the Step 1 suggestion to move infected fish to an H tank to treat. It is essential to treat an entire tank which has columnaris because it is highly contagious. I wish that section of the paper did not exist because it is dead wrong in that advice. The most important part of the article is the observation that "Many expert fish keepers recommend a combination of nitrofurazone and kanamycin as the best treatment for an outbreak of columnaris." Step 4 discusses this and suggests where to get the two meds.
https://fishlab.com/columnaris/

Whatever medication you choose, be sure you research it a bit. The reason is that, in general, there are 3 ways to administer antibiotics to fish:
1. The most effective way is via injection. This is not practical for most hobbyists.
2. Mixed in with food. But this cannot work when a fish has stopped eating.
3. Added to the water. However, some antibiotics are only minimally effective when administered in the way.

So make sure you are aware of how most effectively to administer any med you might use.

edited to fix typos

hello, i just found out that furan 2 is not availible in california where I live, is it ok if i only treat with kana?

 

[Colin_T]

Need more pictures of the fish.

How long have they had the white mouth?
If they have the white lip for more than a few days and it doesn't spread, then it isn't Columnaris.

Has it spread from the lip or does it stay on the lip?
If it doesn't spread from the lip it isn't Columnaris and is most likely a fat lip from swimming into something.

Malachite Green doesn't kill bacteria and Columnaris is a flesh eating bacteria that spread rapidly. It starts off on the mouth and within 24-48 hours it has spread over the face and head and the fish is dead.

Mixing medications is not advisable. Seachem Paraguard contains Malachite Green and if you use another medication containing Malachite Green at the same time, you can poison the fish.

--------------------

If you don't have time to do small water changes each day after using salt, do small water changes a couple of times a week but do it for longer. The idea of small water changes is to dilute the salt slowly so the fish don't go from brackish water to pure fresh water and suffer from osmotic shock.

 

[Sgooosh]

Need more pictures of the fish.

How long have they had the white mouth?
If they have the white lip for more than a few days and it doesn't spread, then it isn't Columnaris.

Has it spread from the lip or does it stay on the lip?
If it doesn't spread from the lip it isn't Columnaris and is most likely a fat lip from swimming into something.

Malachite Green doesn't kill bacteria and Columnaris is a flesh eating bacteria that spread rapidly. It starts off on the mouth and within 24-48 hours it has spread over the face and head and the fish is dead.

Mixing medications is not advisable. Seachem Paraguard contains Malachite Green and if you use another medication containing Malachite Green at the same time, you can poison the fish.

--------------------

If you don't have time to do small water changes each day after using salt, do small water changes a couple of times a week but do it for longer. The idea of small water changes is to dilute the salt slowly so the fish don't go from brackish water to pure fresh water and suffer from osmotic shock.

that's a good idea, thanks.
I know it is columnaris because one new fish from the store had it that i didnt quarantine and the day right after, 2 more fish got it. and after that, i strengthened the fish immnue system by doing giant water changes so i minimized the amount of fish getting it

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Consider the science below and what facts are known about this disease.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2018.00452/full

Identification of Four Distinct Phylogenetic Groups in Flavobacterium columnare With Fish Host Associations​

Benjamin R. LaFrentz1*, Julio C. García1, Geoffrey C. Waldbieser2, Jason P. Evenhuis3, Thomas P. Loch4, Mark R. Liles5,

Fong S. Wong6 and

Siow F. Chang6

• 1Aquatic Animal Health Research Unit, United States Department of Agriculture – Agricultural Research Service, Auburn, AL, United States
• 2Warmwater Aquaculture Research Unit, Thad Cochran National Warmwater Aquaculture Center, United States Department of Agriculture – Agricultural Research Service, Stoneville, MS, United States
• 3National Center for Cool and Cold Water Aquaculture, United States Department of Agriculture – Agricultural Research Service, Kearneysville, WV, United States
• 4Department of Pathobiology and Diagnostic Investigation, College of Veterinary Medicine, Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI, United States
• 5Department of Biological Sciences, Auburn University, Auburn, AL, United States
• 6MSD Animal Health Innovation Pte. Ltd., Singapore, Singapore

Columnaris disease, caused by the Gram-negative bacterium Flavobacterium columnare, is one of the most prevalent fish diseases worldwide. An exceptionally high level of genetic diversity among isolates of F. columnare has long been recognized, whereby six established genomovars have been described to date. However, little has been done to quantify or characterize this diversity further in a systematic fashion. The objective of this research was to perform phylogenetic analyses of 16S rRNA and housekeeping gene sequences to decipher the genetic diversity of F. columnare. Fifty isolates and/or genomes of F. columnare, originating from diverse years, geographic locations, fish hosts, and representative of the six genomovars were analyzed in this study. A multilocus phylogenetic analysis (MLPA) of the 16S rRNA and six housekeeping genes supported four distinct F. columnare genetic groups. There were associations between genomovar and genetic group, but these relationships were imperfect indicating that genomovar assignment does not accurately reflect F. columnare genetic diversity. To expand the dataset, an additional 90 16S rRNA gene sequences were retrieved from GenBank and a phylogenetic analysis of this larger dataset also supported the establishment of four genetic groups. Examination of isolate historical data indicated biological relevance to the identified genetic diversity, with some genetic groups isolated preferentially from specific fish species or families. It is proposed that F. columnare isolates be assigned to the four genetic groups defined in this study rather than genomovar in order to facilitate a standard nomenclature across the scientific community. An increased understanding of which genetic groups are most prevalent in different regions and/or aquaculture industries may allow for the development of improved targeted control and treatment measures for columnaris disease.



H. Abdelhamed, S.W. Nho, A. Karsi, M.L. Lawrence, The role of denitrification genes in anaerobic growth and virulence of Flavobacterium columnare, Journal of Applied Microbiology, Volume 130, Issue 4, 1 April 2021, Pages 1062–1074, https://doi.org/10.1111/jam.14855

Introduction​

Flavobacterium columnare is a long Gram‐negative rod causing columnaris disease, which affects numerous fish species worldwide (Wagner et al. 2002). Six genomovar types have been described among F. columnare isolates (I, II, II‐B, III, I/II and II‐A) (LaFrentz et al. 2014; Garcia et al. 2018). More recently, F. columnare isolates were reclassified into four genetic groups based on 16S rRNA gene sequences (LaFrentz et al. 2018). Genetic group 2 is the most virulent for channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus) (Triyanto and Wakabayashi 1999; Shoemaker et al. 2008). In the United States, F. columnare is responsible for significant economic losses in channel catfish aquaculture (Wagner et al. 2002). Infected catfish often exhibit external lesions on the body surface, gills and fins. Flavobacterium columnare may cause chronic infection with low‐level mortalities, or it may cause acute infection with mortalities occurring within a few days (Declercq et al. 2013; Mohammed and Arias 2014). Host stress (e.g. low oxygen, high nitrite and ammonia, elevated water temperature, mechanical injury or crowding) enhances the occurrence and severity of columnaris disease. Minimizing fish stress helps prevent columnaris disease outbreaks, but the ubiquitous presence of this pathogen in aquatic environments makes eradication of the disease in aquaculture systems difficult.

Red added by me