OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
It's not going to the surface. It goes up but can't make it and sits back on the bottom
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Cory seems sick
- Thread starter Lamie
- Start date
Cory is definitely feeling sickly, and that mouth wound is no joke.
You don't have to change out the entire tank of gravel to switch to sand, and I can see that the gravel is smooth and that you keep it clean! So the gravel isn't likely to be the cause of the wound.
Sorry for length, but I'm a bit scatter-brained at the best of times, and wanted to gather all the info into the one spot so it could be easily referenced.
The only real mistake I'm seeing in the cycles is cleaning the filter media under the tap, and it's a common mistake, so don't beat yourself up over it! Never rinse the filter media -meaning the sponges, ceramics, or any other bits inside the filter meant to filter the water and house beneficial bacteria (BB) under the tap, or throw and replace cartridges, for those people that have those filters that try to con you to throw out them out and replace them, since those are a con to keep making money from you. Since you're either throwing away, or killing off when rinsing under the tap - a good portion of the BB you really want, since chlorine kills bacteria, you're knocking the BB colonies back each time filter media is washed under the tap, and that can cause ammonia spikes and mini cycles.
As @Colin_T said, the filter itself, the housing, any hoses, the impeller itself can be washed under the tap, but the media itself, only rinse it out in old tank water, or at the most, dechlorinated water. Remember that they're not meant to be immaculately clean. They're meant to filter out larger particles from the water, yes, but also mainly to house those BB, so being a bit gross and slimy is the nature of them, and you only need to rinse and squeeze them out in a bucket now and then. Every two weeks is probably a bit too often, unless you overfeed a lot(?) Switch to only rinsing them out once a month, or when the flow from the output slows down and shows it's getting clogged up and needs rinsing out.
Does ammonia usually show at 0.25ppm? It does happen sometimes, and some people always have that reading straight from the tap, but it's usually, I think, ammonium rather than ammonia, and therefore not a problem. But can a chemistry smart person like @Essjay , @Seisage or @gwand check that, with the pH given above, and see what you guys think, please? I get too confused with pH, GH, KH and potential swings, and the difference with the ammonia/ammonium.
While 50% every week - ten days isn't bad at all, and you're not heavily overstocked or anything, at least for now while trying to help this cory and resolve the problem, I'd suggest upping that to 60-70% weekly. The clean, fresh water is the best first aid, and will give the fish the best chance of fighting off secondary infections from that mouth injury, and whatever may have been ailing him even before that.
Luckily, you tend to have beautifully clean and soft water in NZ.
I can see it! The videos are helpful, thank you. It's a very cute little tank, I can see that you do keep it clean, doing the water changes and filter feeding, and I don't think you're doing anything horribly wrong. These are tweaks that I hope will improve things, give your cories the best chance of bouncing back, then hopefully you can restock in good numbers for them. Cories are really social and need a group of six or more, but don't restock until we're sure this sickly cory has recovered, and you're sure the temperature and tankmates are suitable.
If the worst happens and you lose this one, it may be worth considering a different cory species, if you still want cories or other bottom dwellers. C.paleatus like your little ones are gorgeous, but they do like cooler temps, and the lethargy and sluggishness may be partly because they're feeling too hot. They're more sub-tropical than other cory species, and 26 degrees C is right at the top of their range, they much prefer to be on the cooler end of their range, around 72 F.
This site is reliable, and gives ranges, info and habitat suggestions for most of the fish you're likely to find in the hobby.
www.seriouslyfish.com
Having said that, I also looked up black phantom tetra on SF, and it seems they can go cooler temp too:
So I'd knock the heater down a few degrees, and set it to only come on if it reaches 22 degrees C. That should keep it comfortable for both species.
Do you have a thermometer in the tank too? Because heaters are famously unreliable and not always accurate according to what you set it too, and if the room itself is often hot, the water may be hotter than expected, and definitely warmer than peppered cories like to be. If you don't have a thermometer, nearly every fish store will have a cheap glass thermometer for only a few dollars, and it's well worth investing in one so you can check how the temp is really doing, and be sure the heater isn't higher than the dial you've set it to, or the tank getting extra warm because of direct sunlight or on very hot days.
The temp being warmer than peppered cories prefer isn't the direct cause of whatever is going on with the cories you lost, or this ailing one that now has the mouth wound, it's just a general recommendation, and because knocking that temp down even a few degrees should help the fish feel less stressed and more comfortable, which gives him a better shot at recovery, and you a better chance of keeping this species thriving long term.
No need to switch it all out, or switch it all out at once at least, and the bug bites food is really good, so diet isn't likely the problem.
In your shoes, I'd add a "sandy beach" to one section, then try to aim the cory food for that sandy area. Just remove a few cupfuls of gravel, push the rest back, then add maybe 2kgs of sand to start with. Make sure the sand is both fine, and smooth, since cories will filter feed the sand through their gills, and this poorly one had short barbels even before the red mouth injury. So target feeding them on a sandy area means he won't have to dig into the gravel to reach bits of food and risk irritating and re-injuring that damage to his mouth and barbels.
If you later want to switch entirely to sand, you can do it, just requires a bit of know how and preparation, and we can help there. But it's simplier and much easier to switch it out a bit at a time. Make your sand beach gradually larger and remove the gravel a bit at a time, especially since a lot of your BB also live on and in the substrate, so removing it all at once and replacing it with brand new substrate can cause a mini cycle. But doing it gradually, bit by bit, means it won't do that.
Have a look at these threads here for photos and examples
I couldn't see well enough in the videos, or don't know the plant, that's floating at the surface in your tank (but your java fern is looking really good! Much better than most of mine does, lol) is it water sprite, perhaps? @Colin_T While you're at the store for sand and a thermometer, I'd get another plant like limnophilia sessiliflora, or some cryptocorynes, to stick at the back and/or sides. Java fern is great but slow growing, and while I suspect the floating one is a faster growing one and so good for water quality and helping the tetra feel secure, another faster growing plant can only help matters, and something like a crypt, limnophilia, or something, will provide more natural hiding space for the cories.
Help them feel safer and more secure, help take up waste and keep water quality up, and give the cories somewhere to hide if the tetra are doing any bullying. I don't think they usually do, but I don't know the species well, and that injury could be from something like a secondary bacterial infection, bashing himself against the wood, or potentially tetra picked on him as he's sickly and weak already. So more hidey plants can't hurt, but could help.
You don't have to change out the entire tank of gravel to switch to sand, and I can see that the gravel is smooth and that you keep it clean! So the gravel isn't likely to be the cause of the wound.
Sorry for length, but I'm a bit scatter-brained at the best of times, and wanted to gather all the info into the one spot so it could be easily referenced.
The only real mistake I'm seeing in the cycles is cleaning the filter media under the tap, and it's a common mistake, so don't beat yourself up over it! Never rinse the filter media -meaning the sponges, ceramics, or any other bits inside the filter meant to filter the water and house beneficial bacteria (BB) under the tap, or throw and replace cartridges, for those people that have those filters that try to con you to throw out them out and replace them, since those are a con to keep making money from you. Since you're either throwing away, or killing off when rinsing under the tap - a good portion of the BB you really want, since chlorine kills bacteria, you're knocking the BB colonies back each time filter media is washed under the tap, and that can cause ammonia spikes and mini cycles.
As @Colin_T said, the filter itself, the housing, any hoses, the impeller itself can be washed under the tap, but the media itself, only rinse it out in old tank water, or at the most, dechlorinated water. Remember that they're not meant to be immaculately clean. They're meant to filter out larger particles from the water, yes, but also mainly to house those BB, so being a bit gross and slimy is the nature of them, and you only need to rinse and squeeze them out in a bucket now and then. Every two weeks is probably a bit too often, unless you overfeed a lot(?) Switch to only rinsing them out once a month, or when the flow from the output slows down and shows it's getting clogged up and needs rinsing out.
Does ammonia usually show at 0.25ppm? It does happen sometimes, and some people always have that reading straight from the tap, but it's usually, I think, ammonium rather than ammonia, and therefore not a problem. But can a chemistry smart person like @Essjay , @Seisage or @gwand check that, with the pH given above, and see what you guys think, please? I get too confused with pH, GH, KH and potential swings, and the difference with the ammonia/ammonium.
While 50% every week - ten days isn't bad at all, and you're not heavily overstocked or anything, at least for now while trying to help this cory and resolve the problem, I'd suggest upping that to 60-70% weekly. The clean, fresh water is the best first aid, and will give the fish the best chance of fighting off secondary infections from that mouth injury, and whatever may have been ailing him even before that.
Luckily, you tend to have beautifully clean and soft water in NZ.
I can see it! The videos are helpful, thank you.
It's a very cute little tank, I can see that you do keep it clean, doing the water changes and filter feeding, and I don't think you're doing anything horribly wrong. These are tweaks that I hope will improve things, give your cories the best chance of bouncing back, then hopefully you can restock in good numbers for them. Cories are really social and need a group of six or more, but don't restock until we're sure this sickly cory has recovered, and you're sure the temperature and tankmates are suitable. If the worst happens and you lose this one, it may be worth considering a different cory species, if you still want cories or other bottom dwellers. C.paleatus like your little ones are gorgeous, but they do like cooler temps, and the lethargy and sluggishness may be partly because they're feeling too hot. They're more sub-tropical than other cory species, and 26 degrees C is right at the top of their range, they much prefer to be on the cooler end of their range, around 72 F.
This site is reliable, and gives ranges, info and habitat suggestions for most of the fish you're likely to find in the hobby.
Corydoras paleatus (Pepper Cory) — Seriously Fish
www.seriouslyfish.com
Having said that, I also looked up black phantom tetra on SF, and it seems they can go cooler temp too:
So I'd knock the heater down a few degrees, and set it to only come on if it reaches 22 degrees C. That should keep it comfortable for both species.
Do you have a thermometer in the tank too? Because heaters are famously unreliable and not always accurate according to what you set it too, and if the room itself is often hot, the water may be hotter than expected, and definitely warmer than peppered cories like to be. If you don't have a thermometer, nearly every fish store will have a cheap glass thermometer for only a few dollars, and it's well worth investing in one so you can check how the temp is really doing, and be sure the heater isn't higher than the dial you've set it to, or the tank getting extra warm because of direct sunlight or on very hot days.
The temp being warmer than peppered cories prefer isn't the direct cause of whatever is going on with the cories you lost, or this ailing one that now has the mouth wound, it's just a general recommendation, and because knocking that temp down even a few degrees should help the fish feel less stressed and more comfortable, which gives him a better shot at recovery, and you a better chance of keeping this species thriving long term.
No need to switch it all out, or switch it all out at once at least, and the bug bites food is really good, so diet isn't likely the problem.
In your shoes, I'd add a "sandy beach" to one section, then try to aim the cory food for that sandy area. Just remove a few cupfuls of gravel, push the rest back, then add maybe 2kgs of sand to start with. Make sure the sand is both fine, and smooth, since cories will filter feed the sand through their gills, and this poorly one had short barbels even before the red mouth injury. So target feeding them on a sandy area means he won't have to dig into the gravel to reach bits of food and risk irritating and re-injuring that damage to his mouth and barbels.
If you later want to switch entirely to sand, you can do it, just requires a bit of know how and preparation, and we can help there. But it's simplier and much easier to switch it out a bit at a time. Make your sand beach gradually larger and remove the gravel a bit at a time, especially since a lot of your BB also live on and in the substrate, so removing it all at once and replacing it with brand new substrate can cause a mini cycle. But doing it gradually, bit by bit, means it won't do that.
Have a look at these threads here for photos and examples
I'm feeling discouraged about my pygmy cories.
OMG, thank you for sharing this! That's how we can get sand for our Schwartzi corries in our 65 gallon. We've been dreading trying to change out the gravel with all the live plants and fish and such, so we keep putting it off. If we can create a sand beach in the front, where there aren't a lot...
www.fishforums.net
Corys and mixed substrates
I heard there was some desire for a thread about utilizing mixed substrate strategies with corys and I figured I'd start one because I also have some questions. My text tank project after the Ucayali biotope will almost certainly include some kind of cory. I already have a big bag of fine sand...
www.fishforums.net
I couldn't see well enough in the videos, or don't know the plant, that's floating at the surface in your tank (but your java fern is looking really good! Much better than most of mine does, lol) is it water sprite, perhaps? @Colin_T While you're at the store for sand and a thermometer, I'd get another plant like limnophilia sessiliflora, or some cryptocorynes, to stick at the back and/or sides. Java fern is great but slow growing, and while I suspect the floating one is a faster growing one and so good for water quality and helping the tetra feel secure, another faster growing plant can only help matters, and something like a crypt, limnophilia, or something, will provide more natural hiding space for the cories.
Help them feel safer and more secure, help take up waste and keep water quality up, and give the cories somewhere to hide if the tetra are doing any bullying. I don't think they usually do, but I don't know the species well, and that injury could be from something like a secondary bacterial infection, bashing himself against the wood, or potentially tetra picked on him as he's sickly and weak already. So more hidey plants can't hurt, but could help.
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
It's been something I have been worried about. In the summer the tank gets very very warm, and in the afternoon gets some direct sunlight as the sun is going over. I actually think that the tank is in the wrong spot and maybe the heat and sun in the afternoon is getting too much. In saying that though the tetras have been doing ok. I lost 2 about a month ago though so maybe not. So no matter if I turn the temperature of the heater down in the summer the tank gets up to 26 or 27 degrees Celsius on a hot day. I do have a thermometer. I think I might have to move the tank but I'm afraid. There is no where else to put it
but I don't like to keep losing fish Would the sand float away in the water or do I take most of the water out and put the fish in a bucket? Then add the sandy beach. And will the sand go up the vacuum when I clean it or do I not need to gravel clean as is sand?
I have tried lots of plants but my lights aren't strong enough. I have spent so much money on plants trying to find ones that work. I actually bought a second light hoping that I could have more success with different plants and the java fern just took off. No other plants would grow well even with the light. I bought water sprite and it just dissolved, before the new light I think. I don't know why it just disappeared and it's expensive at $8 a plant. I bought the floating plant online cheap and it got posted to me. It's not water sprite it's something different. Probably more like a weed than anything.
I'm in a bit of a pickle
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
I better do a water change tonight for 70% for the sick fish. I'll tell you what its hard work!!!!
It can be, I'm sorry - is anyone able to help you move buckets? In general, 50% weekly should be enough, depending on stocking/planting/water quality results, but when fish are sick, the fresher and cleaner the water, the better. I'm hoping by upping the water changes now, then settling into 50-60% weekly, that the tank will be more stable, and you're less likely to have swings in parameters, tank will be more stable, fish will be healthier.
Filtration and live plants can do a lot to help maintain water quality, but especially without many fast growing live plants to help with water quality, then water changes become even more essential to remove nitrates and any other harmful nasties that can weaken fish, or tip a sickly fish over the edge.
You can use hoses and syphon systems like the Python, or homemade versions of them, like @Colin_T and @Essjay use, to remove the water straight out of a window, door, or down a sink, and since you don't have shrimp or baby fish in there, it would save messing around with buckets and make water changes much easier.
Try not to despair! You're not doing badly at all. Is this your first tank? Because you've already learned a lot, are clearly trying, and there are solutions, so please don't feel like none of this is solveable. It is! And it's exactly what places like this forum is for, so we can all trade tips and help each other out.
The tetra look great, the other cory looks fine too, and it's entirely possible you got some sickly runts from the store when you got the peppered, and none of this is your fault. But even these tweaks are suggestions to try to help both in the short term to help the sickly cory, and to hopefully give you a better chance of long term success, so you can enjoy seeing them thrive, and get the most from the hobby. Not meant to pressure you, or expecting you to spend a ton of money on things that don't work. Don't fret, keep sharing, keep reading around, and lots of us are on a tight budget, or have difficulty with keeping live plants, and there are solutions, so keep your chin up, we're here for you.
It's been something I have been worried about. In the summer the tank gets very very warm, and in the afternoon gets some direct sunlight as the sun is going over. I actually think that the tank is in the wrong spot and maybe the heat and sun in the afternoon is getting too much. In saying that though the tetras have been doing ok. I lost 2 about a month ago though so maybe not. So no matter if I turn the temperature of the heater down in the summer the tank gets up to 26 or 27 degrees Celsius on a hot day. I do have a thermometer. I think I might have to move the tank but I'm afraid. There is no where else to put it
From what I can see in the videos, bearing in mind I don't know the species well, the tetra look good, as does the other peppered cory. It's entirely possible to have got some sickly, weak stock from the store, which may account for it. It's also possible that when you've rinsed filter media under the tap and knocked back the BB colonies, with the amount of fish and not a lot of fast growing live plants in there to suck up ammonia and make up the difference, that the tank has been going through mini cycles, and could account for the losses.
I wouldn't say the tank is overstocked exactly, but it looks like a 70L tall? Roughly 18.5 US gallons, which is what we use in the fishkeeping hobby, for those that haven't switched to the much more sensible metric system
So if you had ten phantom tetra, and 3 (or more?) peppered cories, plus whatever other fish you've had and lost, that's fairly heavily stocked for that sized tank. Do-able, but especially if the tank is well fed, and most of us overfeed, then filter rinsed in tap water, and not a lot of fast growing live plants surviving either to help manage that stocking, that this is why you've been losing fish.
But, it's still fixable!! Just might need to put our heads together, share some tips, and rethink things a little.
Regarding the temp - if the tank is hotter for short time periods, like we have every time we have we have a heatwave in the UK, people are desperately posting how to cool their tanks down, and sharing tips like keeping curtains/blinds closed during the hottest parts of the day, moving the tank to a cooler spot, even running a fan across the top of the tank can help, but the fish can often endure the higher temps for short periods, just as they manage seasonal changes and heatwaves in the wild.
But if it's consistently at the hotter end of their range, and you lose this sickly cory, then it may be worth considering returning or rehoming the remaining peppered cory, and switching to a more tropical type of cory that is less likely to struggle with the summer heat there. Or keeping something other than cories, if you want to keep the gravel substrate.
Lets see if we can save this sickly one, whether things improve with the larger, more frequent water changes, and only rinsing the filter media in old tank water/dechlorinated water, then reassess?
No need to move the fish. Just lower the water level a bit to make it easier for you, the way you would for a water change (although even that isn't essential!) scoop out some gravel in whichever corner/area you're going to add the sand, then after rinsing the new sand well, use a jug, cup, plastic takeaway container, or whatever else to scoop up the rinsed sand, and pour it slowly and gently into the cleared area. No, it won't float, it's heavier and denser than water, lots of us use sand substrate, either just sand, or sand plus other substrates.
However, the sand and gravel will tend to mix over time, especially with cories nosing about on top of it, and the gravel settles on top of the sand since larger particles settle on top, smaller lower down, so it can be a pain to keep the two separated. Since you have those wood pieces that the java fern is attached to, and to save spending money on more stuff, I'd use those to create a barrier in one corner to separate the sandy area from the gravel. Have a look at those threads I linked above for more info on that!
As for cleaning the gravel and sand - gravel will still need to be properly gravel vac-ed, yes, but since you don't want to suck up sand with the gravel vac, there are techniques to cleaning both sand and gravel that will give you a lot more control, and can share vids and tips on how to do it, so don't worry about that for now, just know it's do-able, and let me know when you want tips for how to clean the substrates.
Ah, this might be because it's a 70L tall, so it's harder for the light to penetrate to those depths. Plus lots of plants can be fussy and difficult for beginners, and it's definitely easy to waste a lot of money on plants that then fail.
Even if that plant at the surface is a weed (and a weed is only a weed if it's growing where you don't want it! Bear in mind that plenty of people use duckweed, and that's definitely a weed!) then it doesn't seem to be doing any harm, and looks to be growing well, so no worries! If you can get a clearer photo or video of it, I'd be curious to know what it is, especially so we can then hopefully also recommend inexpensive plants that should hopefully work in your tank.
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
This Cory is not doing well. It can't get up to the surface and is just lying on the bottom of the tank. Should I take it out and put it in a bucket? Or just let it die in the tank?
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
did you do the water change?
The mouth has actually healed up a LOT since the last video from the other day. Yes he's lethargic, but he's not at "he's definitely going to die" point, especially if you haven't been doing the large water changes yet.
But if you're just planning to leave him to die, why make it even more stressful and horrible for him by moving him to a bucket? What purpose would it serve? Just let him die in the tank if you're not prepared to do anything to help him.
But if you're just planning to leave him to die, why make it even more stressful and horrible for him by moving him to a bucket? What purpose would it serve? Just let him die in the tank if you're not prepared to do anything to help him.
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
I'm not sure what else I can do
What percentage of the total water volume?
What temp is the tank at now, and have you checked ammonia, nitrites and nitrates again since?
We went into it in other threads. Frequent large water changes, adding a sand area, and time.
Moving him to a bucket won't do anything to help him. Only stress him and then ensure he definitely does die.
We can give all the advice, but if you keep ignoring it to make new threads instead, then how are we meant to help?
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
There is still salt in the tank. When I did the water change I replaced the salt. I'll leave the salt in the for the recommended time 2 weeks. But how should I do my water changes for the next two weeks or so. If I did 4 10litre buckets last night when should I do the next water change?
OP
OP
Lamie
Fishaholic
I am worried about the sand. I can buy it but I really don't know how to put it in. My thinking is that I make a corner with sand as I have a large piece of wood that I can place sideways through half the tank. Sorry about jumping around on different posts
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