Control Algae, Debris Etc

[PudPud]

I have a newly set-up 60L tank (2ftx1ftx1ft) - It has been running fine for two weeks with with only 6 neon tetra in there just now until I get past the 4 week nitrite spike (advised by pet shop) - all water checks are fine although chlorine levels are always saying to add aquasafe which I seem to be doing continually (hopefully this will settle).

I aim to, in time, have 6 guppies, 3 mollies, the existing tetra and a couple of catfish in there (possibly an otocinclus too).
I have gravel in the bottom of the tank and am trying to work out what would be best to help control algae and food debris at the bottom of the tank - the catfish will help a little but I need something that can dig or get into the gravel - would I be best getting small loaches or something like trumpet snails? I realise I cant have both as loaches like to chomp on snails and I would prefer the snails but not sure how practical they will be. I realise I will still need to keep the tank clean etc so this is just as a help rather than an alternative to cleaning/maintaining the tank.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Overload]

A few questions to help see whats going on with your tank:

How often are you doing water changes? and how large are they?
What are the actual figures for your water checks?
What test kit do you have?

You are in a fish-in cycle, probably got a long way to go.

 

[PudPud]

How often are you doing water changes? and how large are they?

I changed approx 10L of water in the tank on Sunday as the water was very cloudy and thought this would help (it didn't help much although a little clearer). Tested today and chlorine high again so added more aquasafe. I realise cloudyness was due to over-feeding the 6 tetra (misread what the book meant) so have reduced the amount of food given - tank still cloudy but hopefully as I get gravel cleaner (I use a gravel cleaner when changing water) and feeding sorted this will sort itself out.

What are the actual figures for your water checks?
What test kit do you have?

I use the Tetra 6 in 1 strips which show everything is fine except the chlorine
Strip just used shows:
No3, No2 - zero
GH - 8od (shows as ok range)
KH - 6od (shows as ok range)
pH - 6od (shows as ok range)
CL2 - 1.5 (shows as use aquasafe)

All strips used over past few couple of weeks show the same results - I used some Nutrafin test kits (test-tube/dropper ones) to back up test strip results and they show more or less the same results.

 

[the_lock_man]

THat 4-week nitrite spike may well take 8+ weeks to get through - you need to be checking your water daily, and ensuring that your ammonia and nitrite levels don't go over 0.25ppm EVER - even that level can be lethal to fish, and does cause long-term internal damage to gills, and the like. That will almost certainly mean doing daily water changes of 20-40l. 10l/week just isn't enough, I'm afraid.

If I'm the first person to suggest that you invest in a liquid test kit, I'll be amazed, as those test strips are notoriously inaccurate.

To answer your specific question about algae and food debris

If you have algae, you have a problem - and nothing will eliminate that problem, only assist. Amano shrimp are good at cleaning both algae and food, but there is nothing alive that you can buy that is a "silver bullet" for any algae problem.

Food debris should also be removed by syphoning it out at your regular "gravel-vac-water-change".

 

[This Old Spouse]

You shouldn't have ANY chlorine in your tank water once you add the aquasafe. But please switch to Seachem Prime or Stress Coat +. You can overdose during water changes a bit without harming your fish. But don't just add aquasafe willy-nilly to the tank water.

Once your tank is established, you should be doing at least 50% water changes weekly. But for the fish-in cycle that you're in, please check our resources to see how much you should be changing.

Also, you might want to consider changing from gravel to sand. It's much easier to keep clean, and also shows how much you're overfeeding.

And just stick to the Nutrafin liquid test kits and stop using the strips.

If I were you, I'd do a gigantic water change of about 80-90%, just leaving enough water for the fish to be able to swim upright with no problem. Use Prime or Stress Coat to dechlorinate the temperature matched water you put in the tank to replace the old water you've siphoned out.

Best of luck, and keep us posted!

 

[Overload]

How often are you doing water changes? and how large are they?

I changed approx 10L of water in the tank on Sunday as the water was very cloudy and thought this would help (it didn't help much although a little clearer). Tested today and chlorine high again so added more aquasafe. I realise cloudyness was due to over-feeding the 6 tetra (misread what the book meant) so have reduced the amount of food given - tank still cloudy but hopefully as I get gravel cleaner (I use a gravel cleaner when changing water) and feeding sorted this will sort itself out.

What are the actual figures for your water checks?
What test kit do you have?

I use the Tetra 6 in 1 strips which show everything is fine except the chlorine
Strip just used shows:
No3, No2 - zero
GH - 8od (shows as ok range)
KH - 6od (shows as ok range)
pH - 6od (shows as ok range)
CL2 - 1.5 (shows as use aquasafe)

All strips used over past few couple of weeks show the same results - I used some Nutrafin test kits (test-tube/dropper ones) to back up test strip results and they show more or less the same results.

Ok big one is missing from that list, Ammonia I would not be surprised if that is very high

You might be lucky with these test strips but they are notoriously unreliable, I would recommend the API freshwater master kit.

I strongly recommend you have a look at the fish-in cycle thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/ as that is what you have. Algae and cloudy water are both signs of high Ammonia levels, and anything over 0.25ppm can kill fish.
You probably need to be doing daily 50% water changes but without knowing your Ammonia reading you might need to do more than that!

When you do waterchanges how do you declorinate?
There are 2 main options, decolrinate each container before you put it in or declorinate the entire tank (not just what you are adding) then fill.

 

[PudPud]

Thanks for quick replies.

I only use the strip tests for ease of regular checking but if anything shows as being above normal then I do a test-tube/dropper test to get a more accurate result. So far nitrite, nitrate etc are all fine and my local fish shop checked my water for me too to make sure I was doing things right on that side before I got the tetra in.

I am fine doing more water changes but did not want to stress out the fish too much - should I still be doing more regular changes if nitrite/nitrate levels are fine or should I only do them if these levels start to rise? Also one of the books I had said to change around 1/5th of the water which was why I was doing around 10L (or just over so I did not change too much at a time) - should I do larger water changes each time to keep tank healthy?

So far fish are feeding fine, showing no sign of stress, active enough etc - there is no algae in tank just now and not a big debris problem (there is some but I have reduced the feeding and siphoned out alot of the stuff and will do this with each water change until water clears up), but I know as I add more fish over time this will be something I may see more so did not know whether to go the loach or snail route - would you say the shrimp would be better and would they be ok with the fish I intend to get? I would prefer the trumpet snails lookwise but obviously is better to have whatever is best for the tank and fish.

 

[PudPud]

Ok big one is missing from that list, Ammonia I would not be surprised if that is very high

I asked the fish shop about that and they were out of ammonia kits but said I would be able to smell it if it was a big problem. The tank smell is slightly musty but I guess that is down to the original over-feeding.

Algae and cloudy water are both signs of high Ammonia levels, and anything over 0.25ppm can kill fish.

Sorry I should have made it more clear in the first post - I dont have any algae at all - water is cloudy a little due to over-feeding and debris I think and I am hoping this will clear with water changes and gravel cleaning. I was only asking about the algae cleaning as in a tank I had many years ago (much larger and my dad who was avid fish keeper helped with that) I had a massive plec and catfish etc to keep on help with tank cleaning and obvious a plec would be far too large for this smaller tank so I thought maybe otocinclus, loach or trumpet snails etc would be good to get as a plec equivalent (for glass and/or gravel cleaning). I was only thinking ahead about avoiding or keeping on top of algae if it appeared - sorry for any misundertanding

When you do waterchanges how do you declorinate?
There are 2 main options, decolrinate each container before you put it in or declorinate the entire tank (not just what you are adding) then fill.

I use Aquasafe and add 5ml to each 10L of water I add to the tank and mix well before adding to the tank. When not doing a water change and the chlorine is higher than it should be I add a few drops direct to the tank as the bottle says you can. So far I have had the tank running for 2 weeks and have added Aquasafe when tank first filled, then a week later after tetra were added and levels were higher, then during water change on Sunday, and then again today when chlorine level high again.

 

[fluttermoth]

I wouldn't trust that chlorine test. They only chlorine that can get into your tank is from the tap water during water changes. If your adding the right amount of dechlorinator to neutralise that, I can't see how it can be going up.

 

[the_lock_man]

Thanks for quick replies.

I only use the strip tests for ease of regular checking but if anything shows as being above normal then I do a test-tube/dropper test to get a more accurate result. So far nitrite, nitrate etc are all fine and my local fish shop checked my water for me too to make sure I was doing things right on that side before I got the tetra in.

I am fine doing more water changes but did not want to stress out the fish too much - should I still be doing more regular changes if nitrite/nitrate levels are fine or should I only do them if these levels start to rise? Also one of the books I had said to change around 1/5th of the water which was why I was doing around 10L (or just over so I did not change too much at a time) - should I do larger water changes each time to keep tank healthy?

So far fish are feeding fine, showing no sign of stress, active enough etc - there is no algae in tank just now and not a big debris problem (there is some but I have reduced the feeding and siphoned out alot of the stuff and will do this with each water change until water clears up), but I know as I add more fish over time this will be something I may see more so did not know whether to go the loach or snail route - would you say the shrimp would be better and would they be ok with the fish I intend to get? I would prefer the trumpet snails lookwise but obviously is better to have whatever is best for the tank and fish.

With regards shrimp v snails, that's personal preference, but as I said, neither are a substitute for diligent aquarium care.

As has been said previously, even 0.25ppm of ammonia or nitrite can kill fish. And I very much doubt that your nose could smell that small an amount - unfortunately, that seems to me to be the shop assistant's excuse for not having a test in stock, it's complete and utter tosh.

To know how much water to change, you have to know how much poison is in the water. If you're showing 1ppm, then you need to change 75% (ie 45l) just to get to the maximum mark. But then, an hour or two later, the level would be over that mark again. So really you need to be changing 80-90% to give yourself some leeway.

If you're showing 2ppm, then you have to do a 90% change, and then another 50% or so, to get the levels right down.

 

[This Old Spouse]

+1

 

[PudPud]

I have just ordered an API master test kit online and that should be here soon - in the meantime should I be doing more regular water changes even though the readings are showing as fine just now? (Just to be on the safe side until the API kit arrives and I can test properly). If so should I stick to small water changes until I can test it properly with the API kit or should I bite the bullet and do larger ones just now?

I was suprised too about the shop assistants reply that an ammonia test kit was not neceesary but as this is a massive fish only pet shop that has been here for years I trusted what they said, but will start the ammonia testing as soon as the api kit arrives (2-3 days it said online).

Keeping the tank clean, changing water, keeping my feeding etc under control I am fine with and hopefully wont get a debris issue again or bad algae problems etc, I just thought something that eats algae/debris would be helpful to have in the tank too (more as a help than a solution).

Again thanks for the quick replies

 

[Overload]

I would start the larger changes now

 

[the_lock_man]

I have just ordered an API master test kit online and that should be here soon - in the meantime should I be doing more regular water changes even though the readings are showing as fine just now? (Just to be on the safe side until the API kit arrives and I can test properly). If so should I stick to small water changes until I can test it properly with the API kit or should I bite the bullet and do larger ones just now?

To be on the safe side, I would suggest daily 50% changes.

I was suprised too about the shop assistants reply that an ammonia test kit was not neceesary but as this is a massive fish only pet shop that has been here for years I trusted what they said, but will start the ammonia testing as soon as the api kit arrives (2-3 days it said online).

You'd be amazed at what some LFSs will say, just so they don't look stupid.

Keeping the tank clean, changing water, keeping my feeding etc under control I am fine with and hopefully wont get a debris issue again or bad algae problems etc, I just thought something that eats algae/debris would be helpful to have in the tank too (more as a help than a solution).

They're always helpful, be it shrimp or snail, no harm by having them, but so many people expect them to be a magic cure, it's unreal.

Again thanks for the quick replies

You're welcome.

 

[PudPud]

Thanks - will do a 50% one now and keep on with them until I can test with the API kit.

The advise on here has been great and I think I will go the snails or shrimp route when my tank is fully cycled and running well.