Confused Newbie! Kh, Ph, Co2, Or

[oatfish]

Hi there,

I am new to the high tech planted tank stuff but set up another tank with the aim to go high tech 2 weeks ago with substrate fertiliser, DIY CO2 injection, 3wpg (although running only 1.5 at the moment) and a filter from another tank that has been running for a couple of years, so already partially cycled. I will start EI next week.
Nitrate :5, ammonia: 0-0.1 at the most,
I planted fast growers from the start and added more plants yesterday so I have a high plant density and will turn on other lights to make it 3wpg tomorrow (lamps arriving tomo). I am using rainwater filtered through activated carbon and very fine filters (75% rainwater plus 25% tap - tap water is v hard and my apistos will not enjoy it! have used this water combination for 2 years and apistos fine with it) BUT I have very high water KH - this morning I measured it to be 170 degrees! With a PH of 6.6. Looking at the CO2 chart, it appears to be off the scale, v high CO2 (>100ppm).

I have just been reading about measuring CO2 by letting some tank water settle outside the tank and ensuring a 1 point drop in PH between it and the water in the tank as a way of measuring CO2. I just do not think I could have that much CO2 in my tank with a DIY method. I also added 10 small algae shrimp yesterday, 8 of which are alive, although 2 have died. I do not think they would have survived if my CO2 was this high. Anyone any advice? I am trying to do everything right!

I think I will add some peat to my filter to bring down my KH - which peat is suitable to use?

Many Thanks!

oatfish

 

[nero]

Yo, Oatfish!

Wow... I hate to say it but you've gone to heaps more trouble than I went to with my first planted tank a month ago!

The only thing that struck me with your post is the co2 is REALLY high... in my mind, TOO high for a DIY setup(Ive got 6L of DIY goodness running on my tank, and ive NEVER got that high).... So i'd question if this is your TRUE co2. I just recently read a thread (im really sorry but I cant find the link for it right now) that listed the differences in co2 measurements, and the kh/ph measurement can be really thrown out by some things (maybe rainwater too)...

So my point is, perhaps the co2 isnt really what you think it is, the drop checker method seems to be the most accurate way to test at this point... maybe consider getting a co2 drop checker indicator???

Hmm, have a good poke around the co2 testing threads and see what you can find. In the meantime I'll see if I can find some links for you.
Good luck with your Plants!

Nero

 

[thegnu]

hi,
i use sphagnum moss peat. no added chemicals.

 

[Squid]

I'm pretty sure that your KH measurement is not in degrees, but PPM instead. Thats how my kit measured it. If i remember rightly, you multiply the figure you have by 0.056 to get the degrees measurement. so 170 * 0.056 = 9.6..

so using the chart on the tropica site, you would have a co2 reading in the high 70's. This is still too much, but i'm no expert. Someone may correct me here, but this will change with higher lighting i believe, as more CO2 will be used up.. (am i right here? im new to this too.)

Edit: how big is the tank, and how much yeast do you have in the DIY kit..

Cheers
Squid

 

[oatfish]

Hey Nero, thanks for fast reply! Yeah i reckon there is no way I can have CO2 that high, unless I am using some incrediable yeast! Thing is I think the drop checkers use the relationship between KH and PH to calculate the CO2 so this would also show a way off CO2 reading... I have a JBL permanebt CO2 checker in the tank but its not exactly the most acurrate in the world. I was just using it to check when my CO2 dropped to low, makes me laugh now though!

Is using the PH difference between tank water that has been standing outside the tank for 24 hours without CO2 injection and comparing it to water in the tank be a better thing to do? i read it on some posts on here but can't find it again - Doh!

 

[oatfish]

Doh, yep thanks Squid, you are correct! I'll measure it later on (it was measured this morning with CO2 running overnight - do you recommend switching it off overnight ?- I have a one way value on my DIY so air would not get into the yeast mix) I'll measure it tonight and see what happens during the day. Hopefully I'll post a planted tank journal soon too! My tank is 32 US gal, with 2 x 2ltr bottles of DIY yeast, using 1 cup if sugar to one teaspoon yeast.

 

[Squid]

Doh, yep thanks Squid, you are correct! I'll measure it later on (it was measured this morning with CO2 running overnight - do you recommend switching it off overnight ?- I have a one way value on my DIY so air would not get into the yeast mix) I'll measure it tonight and see what happens during the day. Hopefully I'll post a planted tank journal soon too! My tank is 32 US gal, with 2 x 2ltr bottles of DIY yeast, using 1 cup if sugar to one teaspoon yeast.

Well, i think it is possible that the reading is fairly accurate. I have DIY Co2, but no way near enough to warrant turning it off at night, especially as this is more tricky with the DIY kits. If the reading is accurate, you could cut down the ammount of yeast that you have in each one slightly? again, i would wait for more comments on this, I was mainly pointing out the problems you were having with the numbers...

Good Luck
Squid

 

[oatfish]

Thanks, I was not wanting to let the CO2 drop below 30ppm as I don't want an algae farm, but don't think thats gonna be a prob.....

 

[nero]

Hi again

If you need to convert your kh, here is the link:


http/www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/gh_kh_conv_cal.cfm

but as for the drop checker, yes it is using the link between your kh/ph but its testing the "air" not the water... omg, i dont even think that begins to make sense, but look at


http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169942

See how the bulb is not in contact with your water? it is kinda directly testing the "air" in your tank.... But as soon as you take the water out of your tank and do your ph and kh tests on it, any buffers and things that have affected your rainwater/tapwater come into play and skew the results...

ok, im not an expert and i have to admit I dont really know what the co2 in my tank is, but my point is just be wary of the conversion tables because to many things can affect the results.

In a nutshell, I would be very suprised if it is the co2 that is hurting your shrimp. Double check the ammonia and nitrites. Or is there a big temperature jump or ph jump from their old tank to their new tank?

All the Best,
Nero

 

[nero]

Damn oatfish, im really sorry, i just re-read your thread and you are actually using a proper drop-checker. my mistake, I thought you were using the ph/kh table to calculate your co2

The only think I can think of is have you waited long enough, those things take a little while to acclimatise. And maybe changing the reagent would help? either way unless your co2 diffuser is bubbling INTO the drop checker (lol) maybe try waiting a day for it to settle?

As I said though, double check your other parameters, and also as far as i have read it is unlikely that it is the co2 that is hurting your shrimp this early. If you suspect that it is a lack of oxygen add an airpump for them...

and might I suggest, if you are hurting your shrimp, RETURN them to a stable tank, and then SETTLE your planted tank, get comfortable with the idea of co2 and get your levels stable, THEN add some livestock.

Nero

 

[oatfish]

Hi Nero,

Yeah, thanks! My CO2 all seemed fine until last night, ie 30ppm - dunno what I did! Anyway will transfer the shrimp to my other tank tonight - I recieved them through the post yesterday so it may just be that the two that died just did not like the travelling etc!
Thanks for your help and the CO2 advice

 

[nero]

Hey again Oatfish, Just found this while I was browsing and thought it might interest you,

http/www.barrreport.com/articles/2661-dr...rs-why-how.html

nero

 

[oatfish]

well, all good now - added some more rainwater when I got in from work and shrimps all seem happy before I went to bed so not moved them, CO stabilised I think - stopped adding it overnight and this morning no more shrimp deaths

So only lost 2 out of 10 which I think is reasonable. Thanks for the replies!