Confirmation of my thoughts and research for my first tank.

[Sprizmo]

Hi Everyone. I hope you have had a great Christmas period.
Over the last couple of weeks I have become obsessed with Tropical fish and the possibility of keeping them and after a few weeks of research I believe I am now ready to take the plunge but want some confirmation from experienced fish keepers as I have tried with people at shops but part of me thinks that they are just trying to push things on me for sales.

I have decided on a Fluval Roma 125L Tank which comes with the filter and heater, this is mainly down to the size of it being what I can fit in and that its a good brand. From what I understand the filter and heater that come with it are more than capable for a beginner and what I am planning. Please confirm otherwise if incorrect.
I will be putting in live plants which I am quite confident with after watching 50+ hours of videos on YouTube but again looking for confirmation. They won't be hard to car for plants, most likely be easy plants such as Water Wisteria and Amazon Swords.
Now to the fish. I used the Aqua advisor calculator to make sure but I have hopefully got the right mix and quantity, I know this isn't the be all and end all of determining what I can have but hopefully you can confirm if I am correct or need amendments.
So in 125 litres I aim to put in:
8 x Guppy (2 males and 6 females)
6 x Neon Tetra (not sure if the mix matters with these)
1 x Candy Striped Pleco
Recommended temperature range: 22 - 27 C. Recommended pH range: 5.5 - 7.5. Recommended hardness range: 1 - 15 dH.
Your aquarium filtration capacity is satisfactory. Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 106%.
Recommended water change schedule: 19% per week. Your aquarium stocking level is 74%.
Does the above sound right? I live in Essex with very hard water, I am going to Wet Pets in Romford tomorrow with a water sample to hopefully get this confirmed by the shop but I believe these fish are suited to harder water?

My aim was tomorrow buy the master testing kit and other bits and pieces before ordering the tank, plants etc. but trying to get as much information confirmed before taking the big plunge.

Any info or help that you think I will need to know, please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[Slaphppy7]

Welcome to TFF.

First and foremost, be sure to read up on cycling your tank, see here for the different methods...the fishless cycle is preferred by many of us:

Cycle Your Tank! A Complete Guide For Beginners

Fishless cycling https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/ Silent or plant cycling https://www.fishforums.net/threads/planted-silent-cycling.470400/ Fish-in cycling...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum it looks like you are learning some good lesons early on and while some great people work in the stores it is always good to get your own info so you know what you are buying in the store.

If you know you have hard water check on your local water companies website for a postcode checker and you should get hardness ratings in either ppm or kh and gh. The fish you have picked out so far have some slight issues with keeping them in hard water. The Neon Tetra and Pleco are best suited to soft water and you have to be careful with Neon Tetras as they have been so over bred they are quite genetically weak now and also an uncurable disease known as Neon Tetra Disease is prevelant in a lot of stores and supplies.

I have hard water too which isnt the end of the world we still have loads of options you just need to decide what you want from the tank. A couple of species to check out would be things like Celestial Pearl Danios, Rummy Nose Rasboras, Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish, Daisys Rice Fish instead of the Neon Tetras. The pleco is quite unique but a good catfish for a hardwater tank is something like a Synodontis Catfish, Synodontis Nigiventis is a good choice or you could go for one of the black and white species like Petricola or Polli. There are some smaller loach species that do well in hard water too but bottom dwellers might be easier to work out once we know just how hard your water is.

Your Guppies are a good choice, not my cup of tea personally but will work well. In those quantities you will get babies though so be prepared for that. You could look at other live bearers like Platies which I prefer because the females are just as colourful as the females especially breeds like Red Wags.

An other feature fish to think about are Pearl Gourami which do well in hard water and would be a good bigger fish for this tank.

Wills

 

[Essjay]

If you know you have hard water check on your local water companies website for a postcode checker and you should get hardness ratings in either ppm or kh and gh.

If you can't find it, tell us the name of your water company and we'll see if we can find the page for you

 

[GaryE]

Have you met any local aquarists? networking can really help. If you can put your filter media in a healthy (not a pet store) tank for a week or 10 days, your cycle is taken care of. I've cycled a few sponges for local people.

 

[Sprizmo]

Right so according to my water supplier we are very hard.
Calcium Carbonate - 302.5000
Degrees Clarke - 20.8604
French Degrees - 30.2500
German Degrees - 17.1820

So if I'm right that means the water is too hard for the fish I suggested? I will look at some other fish as suggested, the neon tentras were not the definite so thats not too bad.

 

[Essjay]

As you can see, there are several units for measuring hardness; fish profiles use just two - calcium carbonate (which they call ppm) and German hardness (dH or dGH).

Yes you do have hard water. Perfect for the common livebearers, most species of rainbowfish and Rift Lake cichlids. Other members with hard water will be able to suggest more hard water fish.
The guppies you mention in your first post are fine with that hardness, though neons and plecs need softer water.

 

[Sprizmo]

So I've had a look around at some fish that would be suitable for the water and as a group. Would the below be okay?

6 x Platy (Xiphophorus maculatus) (4 female and 2 male)
2 x Pearl Gourami (Trichogaster leerii)
8 x White Cloud Mountain Minnow (Tanichthys albonubes)
Recommended temperature range: 24-25 C. Recommended pH range: 6 – 7.8.

 

[Essjay]

Many sites say pearl gouramis can be kept in hard water but I wouldn't risk it.
White clouds need cooler water than most fish - for example, they are not compatible with pearl gouramis. The gouramis need 24 to 30 deg C while white clouds need 14 to 22 deg C. Platies and white clouds do have a small overlap.

You will need to cycle the tank so you have plenty time to finalise your planned stocking.
A test kit is essential for cycling, so as soon as you have one, test your tap water. The test kit should include pH - test both freshly run tap water and a glass of water that's been allowed to stand overnight - any gasses in the water will gas out on standing and this can alter the pH. With your hard water you will probably find that you have a high pH.



Two important points -
a shop will tell you it is OK to buy fish straight away, and will probably sell you a bottled bacteria product. It is not safe to get fish until the tank is cycled, and the bottled bacteria may speed it up, not cycle it instantly. And some brands do nothing.
There are two ways to cycle a tank - by adding ammonia until the tank has grown enough ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria (fishless cycling) or by planting a lot of live plants and waiting until they are actively growing (plant or silent cycling). This describes why we need to cycle a tank, and has links to the actual methods https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycle-your-tank-a-complete-guide-for-beginners.475055/
Never, ever listen to a shop worker's advice. There are some knowledgable shop workers but most haven't a clue and are trained only how to make a sale.

 

[Sprizmo]

Thanks for the help so far! Appreciate it.
Managed to get the tank today, walked into Pets at Home and they had it so I got it.
Its setup in situ now, got to leak test it but waiting for my test kit, pump, new bucket etc. before that gets water in it.
Went to Wetpets in Romford. They were helpful, spoke to a younger man who wasn't pushy which was good. He recommended I just go with smaller fish to get me going then maybe look into bigger fish and lowering the hardness down the line hopefully when the first tank will have lived a long life! He said that most of the fish in our area are used to hard water as its what the shops all use mainly so the fish are more tolerant to harder water but he advised me of a few breeds to look at. He did advise that I should avoid live plants firstly because its harder than the fish but I want to as its part of my vision.
I hope to do a fishless cycle as it appears to me that this is the easiest and safest as a first timer. Where do I get the ammonia from? Looked at the post with ammonia sources but couldn't find one definitively. Saw something called Dr Tim's from Swell UK, is this okay? Off to a shop tomorrow to look for a GH and KH test kit as cant get one where I have been.

Will need advise as to what water conditioner I buy as well, there seem to be so many. API Tap Water Conditioner and SeaChem Prime seem the best?

So much to learn but I'm getting there!

 

[Slaphppy7]

Dr. Tim's is fine, and you named 2 excellent water conditioners, as well

 

[Wills]

Thanks for the help so far! Appreciate it.
Managed to get the tank today, walked into Pets at Home and they had it so I got it.
Its setup in situ now, got to leak test it but waiting for my test kit, pump, new bucket etc. before that gets water in it.
Went to Wetpets in Romford. They were helpful, spoke to a younger man who wasn't pushy which was good. He recommended I just go with smaller fish to get me going then maybe look into bigger fish and lowering the hardness down the line hopefully when the first tank will have lived a long life! He said that most of the fish in our area are used to hard water as its what the shops all use mainly so the fish are more tolerant to harder water but he advised me of a few breeds to look at. He did advise that I should avoid live plants firstly because its harder than the fish but I want to as its part of my vision.
I hope to do a fishless cycle as it appears to me that this is the easiest and safest as a first timer. Where do I get the ammonia from? Looked at the post with ammonia sources but couldn't find one definitively. Saw something called Dr Tim's from Swell UK, is this okay? Off to a shop tomorrow to look for a GH and KH test kit as cant get one where I have been.

Will need advise as to what water conditioner I buy as well, there seem to be so many. API Tap Water Conditioner and SeaChem Prime seem the best?

So much to learn but I'm getting there!

Great news on the tank have you got your master test kit yet? One thing to check is the nitrate level from your tap water. Some areas of the UK have problematic nitrate levels others dont, the reason I say is that unless your water has something like that in it I would stay with your current hardness and work with it, there are loads of options available.

In terms of fish adapting to hard water based on the shop they come from, it is true that in the short term they will aclimatise to hard water but its the long term health that suffers. There is evidence that keeping softwater fish in hardwater can cause calcium build ups in their kidneys and other organs which drastically shortens their life span. A lot of the fish we keep can live upto and over 5 years but in the wrong water this can be as low as 2 years. So for me its a bit of a myth, not totally baseless but it is best to work with fish that are naturally suited to your tap water and take advantage of it. For example if your water is really hard you could have a tank of Shell Dwelling Cichlids which are really really cool little fish!

In terms of plants I'm going to disagree with they guys again, plants are super beneficial to any tank especially at the start. The trick is to research them and make sure you get the right ones and that you dont let a store sell you house plants to put in the tank. The Tropica website is a great resource for plants https://tropica.com/en/plants/search/?mode=search&sew=&dif=Easy&pgr=&ori=&use= any of these would be great starting point. It helps to use online plant specialists too rather than just local stores so you can guarantee what you recieve. Pro Shrimp, Aqua Essentials, Horizon Aquatics, Aquarium Gardens and Java Plants are all worth checking out.

Some plant species to look at are things like Anacharis, Limnophilla, Valis, Anubias, Amazon Swords, Cryptocorynes, Cardomine, Hygrophilla - all easy classed plants that can be planted in sand or tied to rocks or wood. If you add in some liquid fertilisers and some root tabs they will all grow no problem they are all technically weeds in the wild so are definitely worth a try. There is a more advanced side to the planted hobby but I dont think you want to do that route just yet.

I have no clue where things are down south But I have heard really good things about a store called Wildwoods in Essex that has a great reputation and get some really nice fish in too. Might be worth checking out if you are not sure of the stores you have visited so far.

Wills

 

[Essjay]

Re ammonia, there is a new seller on eBay selling pure ammonia, though it is more expensive and twice the usual strength. I have 'talked' to him on another forum and advised that he used the words 'no additives' and 'fishless cycling' in the item description. He's selling it because his company used to use Jeyes Kleen Off ammonia which is no longer in production so his company decided to market their own.

Items for sale by greyman499 | eBay

Shop eBay for great deals from greyman499!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Sprizmo]

Great news on the tank have you got your master test kit yet? One thing to check is the nitrate level from your tap water. Some areas of the UK have problematic nitrate levels others dont, the reason I say is that unless your water has something like that in it I would stay with your current hardness and work with it, there are loads of options available.

In terms of fish adapting to hard water based on the shop they come from, it is true that in the short term they will aclimatise to hard water but its the long term health that suffers. There is evidence that keeping softwater fish in hardwater can cause calcium build ups in their kidneys and other organs which drastically shortens their life span. A lot of the fish we keep can live upto and over 5 years but in the wrong water this can be as low as 2 years. So for me its a bit of a myth, not totally baseless but it is best to work with fish that are naturally suited to your tap water and take advantage of it. For example if your water is really hard you could have a tank of Shell Dwelling Cichlids which are really really cool little fish!

In terms of plants I'm going to disagree with they guys again, plants are super beneficial to any tank especially at the start. The trick is to research them and make sure you get the right ones and that you dont let a store sell you house plants to put in the tank. The Tropica website is a great resource for plants https://tropica.com/en/plants/search/?mode=search&sew=&dif=Easy&pgr=&ori=&use= any of these would be great starting point. It helps to use online plant specialists too rather than just local stores so you can guarantee what you recieve. Pro Shrimp, Aqua Essentials, Horizon Aquatics, Aquarium Gardens and Java Plants are all worth checking out.

Some plant species to look at are things like Anacharis, Limnophilla, Valis, Anubias, Amazon Swords, Cryptocorynes, Cardomine, Hygrophilla - all easy classed plants that can be planted in sand or tied to rocks or wood. If you add in some liquid fertilisers and some root tabs they will all grow no problem they are all technically weeds in the wild so are definitely worth a try. There is a more advanced side to the planted hobby but I dont think you want to do that route just yet.

I have no clue where things are down south But I have heard really good things about a store called Wildwoods in Essex that has a great reputation and get some really nice fish in too. Might be worth checking out if you are not sure of the stores you have visited so far.

Wills

Thanks so much for the advice. I was always going to go with live plants, part of what attracted me to the hobby. I still haven’t got the kit, it is due Friday I think, struggled to get one in store because it’s Christmas and everywhere seems busy and low on stock.

Once I have tested all the eater then I am going to focus on getting the tank going then choose fish as suggested for the water I have. Want to be successful first time around then in the future maybe get more creative.

 

[Wills]

Thanks so much for the advice. I was always going to go with live plants, part of what attracted me to the hobby. I still haven’t got the kit, it is due Friday I think, struggled to get one in store because it’s Christmas and everywhere seems busy and low on stock.

Once I have tested all the eater then I am going to focus on getting the tank going then choose fish as suggested for the water I have. Want to be successful first time around then in the future maybe get more creative.

That’s a great approach - it is possible to keep soft water fish in hard water I did it in ignorance for a long time but if you stick to the fish that work naturally they will be healthier less prone to disease and live much longer. Researching around it can be really rewarding too I kept South American cichlids for ten years and always had issues. I’ve been researching Africans recently which I’ve always turned my nose up at but life would have been much easier on that choice lol and I could have scratched the same itch if only I’d listened lol