Community Fish

[hobby5]

Are you sure about the water parameters? What units are those? German or french or anything else? Usually GH would be larger than KH. Your meassurments might indicate the presence of whole-house water softener (ion-exchanger). The resulting water is not considered very suitable for fish keeping. Also a KH of 20 °dH is super hard water!

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Are you sure about the water parameters? What units are those? German or french or anything else? Usually GH would be larger than KH. Your meassurments might indicate the presence of whole-house water softener (ion-exchanger). The resulting water is not considered very suitable for fish keeping. Also a KH of 20 °dH is super hard water!

I went and did another test. PH is the same, GH seems to be somewhere between 8 and KH is between 15-20. It is my understanding that GH is what dictates water hardness and not KH......

Edit: The test kit I'm using is a Tetra test kit and all it says is d as the units (think those are German idk....)

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Ok I made a list taking into consideration that my tank is 60 gallons. I reduced 10 gallons because the tank wont be full to the very top and because gravel and other ornaments take up space. The tank will be planted (Not Heavily) and contain driftwood.
Here's the list:
1.Bristlenose Plec x1
2. Cherry Barb x6
3. Zebra Danio x6
4. Neon Tetra x6
5. Dwarf Gourami x1
6. Kuhili Loach x2
7. Red Cherry Shrimp x3

Thoughts?

 

[Byron]

Are you sure about the water parameters? What units are those? German or french or anything else? Usually GH would be larger than KH. Your meassurments might indicate the presence of whole-house water softener (ion-exchanger). The resulting water is not considered very suitable for fish keeping. Also a KH of 20 °dH is super hard water!

I went and did another test. PH is the same, GH seems to be somewhere between 8 and KH is between 15-20. It is my understanding that GH is what dictates water hardness and not KH......

Edit: The test kit I'm using is a Tetra test kit and all it says is d as the units (think those are German idk....)

I had a similar thought as hobby5 this morning, glad he asked it. And the Tetra would probably be dGH if memory serves me. Can you answer on the water softener though...if your tap water runs through a softener apparatus?

GH is the level of dissolved hard minerals (calcium and magnesium primarily) in the water, and this is significant for fish. Water enters the fish via osmosis continually, which is why anything in the water gets inside the fish. Soft water fish have issues with calcium blocking their kidneys, etc. KH is also relevant, but less so, and it is normally relevant to the GH as hobby mentioned.

Byron.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

I had a similar thought as hobby5 this morning, glad he asked it. And the Tetra would probably be dGH if memory serves me. Can you answer on the water softener though...if your tap water runs through a softener apparatus?

GH is the level of dissolved hard minerals (calcium and magnesium primarily) in the water, and this is significant for fish. Water enters the fish via osmosis continually, which is why anything in the water gets inside the fish. Soft water fish have issues with calcium blocking their kidneys, etc. KH is also relevant, but less so, and it is normally relevant to the GH as hobby mentioned.

Byron.

As far as I can tell Water Softeners are illegal where I live.... I do know that the water here does have a very, very high amount of calcium as the rock here is mostly limestone and our water source comes form a lake in a bed of limestone. This is what I assume offers up the very high KH levels. The Tetra test kit says made in Germany so I assume dGH is German....

 

[DutchMuch]

Gosh the area you live in is harsh... Israel?

 

[Byron]

Ok I made a list taking into consideration that my tank is 60 gallons. I reduced 10 gallons because the tank wont be full to the very top and because gravel and other ornaments take up space. The tank will be planted (Not Heavily) and contain driftwood.
Here's the list:
1.Bristlenose Plec x1
2. Cherry Barb x6
3. Zebra Danio x6
4. Neon Tetra x6
5. Dwarf Gourami x1
6. Kuhili Loach x2
7. Red Cherry Shrimp x3

Thoughts?

I'll just offer some suggestions on this list, leaving aside for the moment the GH/KH issue mentioned in other posts here, and considering only the tank size and species.

Dwarf gourami...unless you can acquire this species from a reliable breeder, or know the source as reliable (the breeder/supplier, not the store), I would omit this species. There are still diseased fish carrying the iridovirus which cannot be treated, and according to most sources may possibly be transferrable to other species. Another issue with any gourami is its sedate nature, compared to active swimmers like danio and barb. Gourami should never be combined with barbs or danios as they are too active and this can unsettle sedate fish. Rasboras are good tankmates (depending upon species sometimes, but in general), and some of the quieter tetras could work. Nothing nippy.

Kuhli loach, need more in the group, at least five or six. But, do you have sand substrate? Most substrate fish fare better with sand, some actually need it, and kuhlii is one of these, as they like to burrow. And hide, so chunks of wood (which you need for the Bristlenose anyway) advisable.

If you stay with the zebra danio and cherry barbs, I would up their numbers to 9-12 each. Shoaling fish are always better with more of them, and the oft-cited "six minimum" is only the absolute minimum when space may prevent more. So having the space, it is better to increase the numbers of a species to provide a better environment, as this results in healthier fish and "happy" fish.

Same goes for the neon tetra, but I would say 12-15 (or more). But here we come to something else; this species is technically a soft water species, and it is much less active, so in with active swimmers it may want a fair bit of cover. I would want to pin down the GH before recommending this species.

Byron.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Gosh the area you live in is harsh... Israel?

Yep Honestly the best would be to discuss the matter with local fish keepers but in pet stores they aren't knowledgeable and there's a small language barrier...

 

[DutchMuch]

yea... sucks... hope the best 4 you bud

 

[Jordan_Deus]

I'll just offer some suggestions on this list, leaving aside for the moment the GH/KH issue mentioned in other posts here, and considering only the tank size and species.

Dwarf gourami...unless you can acquire this species from a reliable breeder, or know the source as reliable (the breeder/supplier, not the store), I would omit this species. There are still diseased fish carrying the iridovirus which cannot be treated, and according to most sources may possibly be transferrable to other species. Another issue with any gourami is its sedate nature, compared to active swimmers like danio and barb. Gourami should never be combined with barbs or danios as they are too active and this can unsettle sedate fish. Rasboras are good tankmates (depending upon species sometimes, but in general), and some of the quieter tetras could work. Nothing nippy.

Kuhli loach, need more in the group, at least five or six. But, do you have sand substrate? Most substrate fish fare better with sand, some actually need it, and kuhlii is one of these, as they like to burrow. And hide, so chunks of wood (which you need for the Bristlenose anyway) advisable.

If you stay with the zebra danio and cherry barbs, I would up their numbers to 9-12 each. Shoaling fish are always better with more of them, and the oft-cited "six minimum" is only the absolute minimum when space may prevent more. So having the space, it is better to increase the numbers of a species to provide a better environment, as this results in healthier fish and "happy" fish.

Same goes for the neon tetra, but I would say 12-15 (or more). But here we come to something else; this species is technically a soft water species, and it is much less active, so in with active swimmers it may want a fair bit of cover. I would want to pin down the GH before recommending this species.

Byron.

I also read that the Kuhili Loach may eat shrimp. My substrate is a round smooth gravel. Could you recommend any other tetra species? My GH is a steady 8, I've done two tests each came up as 8.

I'm trying to give the tank the affect that it's full without being overstocked. So I need at least three different species, one for each level of the tank.

EDIT: Let me add that the effect I'm looking for in this tank is one where the focus is on the Plec and another semi large, interesting fish. With smaller schooling fish and plants in the background. The issue is finding another lone fish to match with the community tank (preferably 3-4 inch). What I think I'll do is up the number of Danios and Barbs (9-12 as you suggested), forget the tetras and find another larger more attractive fish. Still unsure about the Loaches. I don't want to mess around with a betta in a community tank because I have no where to relocate it to if it doesn't work.

 

[DutchMuch]

CPD's, neon or cardinal tetras, and maybe a killifish as a show fish
rather than a pleco

 

[Byron]

I also read that the Kuhili Loach may eat shrimp. My substrate is a round smooth gravel. Could you recommend any other tetra species? My GH is a steady 8, I've done two tests each came up as 8.

I'm trying to give the tank the affect that it's full without being overstocked. So I need at least three different species, one for each level of the tank.

EDIT: Let me add that the effect I'm looking for in this tank is one where the focus is on the Plec and another semi large, interesting fish. With smaller schooling fish and plants in the background. The issue is finding another lone fish to match with the community tank (preferably 3-4 inch). What I think I'll do is up the number of Danios and Barbs (9-12 as you suggested), forget the tetras and find another larger more attractive fish. Still unsure about the Loaches. I don't want to mess around with a betta in a community tank because I have no where to relocate it to if it doesn't work.

On the shrimp...most habitats of tropical aquarium fish have crustaceans present, and this is a natural food for fish. Depends upon the size of the fish and shrimp of course, and sometimes other factors in the aquarium (well-fed fish tend to be less likely to see other critters as food, generally). I've only once had shrimp, and they were two that came in the bag with pygmy cories so not intentional, and they lived several months with the cories but the shrimp were about the same size as the cories, and there were lots of hiding places. Pygmy cories are not that predatory as other fish might be either. Others who have more experience with shrimp will be able to offer better advice.

Let's take the GH as 8 dGH, that's not bad at all. Call it moderately soft. Plenty of options to explore.

Thinking about the centrepiece...solitary fish that would fit this tend to be sedate, and this is getting back into the problem of the activity of the danios and barbs. Centrepiece might include cichlids (something like a Bolivian Ram), gourami (a small group rather than lone fish) like the Pearl.

The Bristlenose will not be all that obvious, remaining on wood or plant leaves. If you're looking for a centrepiece that will be seen, it won't be a plec.

No, Betta are not community fish, that is only asking for likely trouble (even if lucky to be one of the exceptions) and not fair to the fish.

This is a 60g, but what is the length?

 

[DutchMuch]

No, Betta are not community fish, that is only asking for likely trouble (even if lucky to be one of the exceptions) and not fair to the fish.

I had my betta in a 65 and he did fine, large community of small nano fish. He didn't chase or anything, the tank was heavily planted dutch so im sure that had effect on it. Just saying its possible and can be done, its not a "no"

 

[Jordan_Deus]

On the shrimp...most habitats of tropical aquarium fish have crustaceans present, and this is a natural food for fish. Depends upon the size of the fish and shrimp of course, and sometimes other factors in the aquarium (well-fed fish tend to be less likely to see other critters as food, generally). I've only once had shrimp, and they were two that came in the bag with pygmy cories so not intentional, and they lived several months with the cories but the shrimp were about the same size as the cories, and there were lots of hiding places. Pygmy cories are not that predatory as other fish might be either. Others who have more experience with shrimp will be able to offer better advice.

Let's take the GH as 8 dGH, that's not bad at all. Call it moderately soft. Plenty of options to explore.

Thinking about the centrepiece...solitary fish that would fit this tend to be sedate, and this is getting back into the problem of the activity of the danios and barbs. Centrepiece might include cichlids (something like a Bolivian Ram), gourami (a small group rather than lone fish) like the Pearl.

The Bristlenose will not be all that obvious, remaining on wood or plant leaves. If you're looking for a centrepiece that will be seen, it won't be a plec.

No, Betta are not community fish, that is only asking for likely trouble (even if lucky to be one of the exceptions) and not fair to the fish.

This is a 60g, but what is the length?

The Plec is more a personal center piece (stupid childhood dream), what's important is that I know it's there. I was thinking 1-2 Blue Ram cichlids. The Tank is 1 meter length 43 cm width 67 cm height.

 

[DutchMuch]

*whispers*
Killifish:
Tetras:
CPDs: