Community Feeding/diet

[sawickib]

So im thinking of switching my 180 gallon over to all dither and small community fish, i was wondering what a recommended diet for all of them should be.
 
I plan on having these fish in the tank within a few months.
 

• Corydoras (multiple species, most likely panda and bronze but im not sure)
• Dension Barbs (probably 12 of these)
• Angelfish (7-8 of these)
• Geophagus (mixed species, 10 in total)
• L25 (going to be eating shrimp and hikari)
• A few bushy nose plecos (probably going to be eating mostly vegetables)
• Congo tetras (probably 12)
• Pearl gouramis (4)

I think that will be it, so what should i be looking into buying to feed these fish a proper diet, as well as for their size?
 
And if you have any other recommendations for stocking then i would appreciate the suggestions
 

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, the first thing that jumps out from that list is the barbs - barbs tend to be nippy (not all types admittedly but in general they are fin nippers) and so you might find the angelfish and the cories will get eaten alive by the barbs. Barbs tend to be fast moving and prey on the fins of the slower moving fish. The other thing that jumps out is the 'bushy nosed plecos' ... are you meaning Ancistrus catfish? The common pleco grows to a massive size and so 'a few' of those I can't recommend. I'll also warn you if you are meaning ancistrus cats that you might have problems later on keeping multiple ones.
 
I found this out to my horror recently. I had two male ancistrus. They were brothers. They lived together in peace for nearly 3 years and then two weeks ago I came into the room and sand was flying everywhere. All my stock were in hiding and in the middle of my tank were my two ancistrus boys knocking the heck out of each other ... it was a pretty frightening sight and I'm used to battling cichlids.
In the end one of my boys had to go and spend the night in my Dad's tank and was given to my lfs in the morning. I'm still dealing with the aftermath now as the remaining ancistrus has now become completely reclusive.
 
 
Okay, on to your original question. I've found feeding a community tank can be a bit problematic - especially if you just want to feed one lot of food. Fish of different sizes have different sized mouths and some fish are fast to the food and others are slower. It often means that the fish which are slow or living on the bottom go without. I now feed TetraPrima and I scatter it the full length of the tank, crumbling it smaller as I go for the smaller fish, but this leaves my cories without and my reclusive catfish hungry too. To deal with this I got some sinking catfish pellets and sinking algae wafers. I'm currently using New Era as my cories seem to love them - they don't last long!
 
I'd recommend using the same principle and adding something frozen as a treat too - I add frozen bloodworms/mysis/artemia with a turkey baster - again scattering it in different places so they all get a chance to eat some.
 
Hopefully I've been of some help. Good luck with your tank

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

It's a common misconception that fin nipping is aggression. A lot of times the fins of other fish are the only source of the bulk that these fish need in their diet. Processed diets are great for providing the nutrients but may lack enough bulk for some fish. I've seen supplementing with brine shrimp stop fin nipping. True aggressive behavior can result in shredded fins but it looks different from fin nipping. Often, it comes in the form of sneak attacks more so than outright aggression. It takes does take a trained eye to know the difference. That being said, brine shrimp is not a guarantee to stop fin nipping once it has been a learned behavior, but it definitely can help deter it.

 

[sawickib]

Hi, the first thing that jumps out from that list is the barbs - barbs tend to be nippy (not all types admittedly but in general they are fin nippers) and so you might find the angelfish and the cories will get eaten alive by the barbs. Barbs tend to be fast moving and prey on the fins of the slower moving fish. The other thing that jumps out is the 'bushy nosed plecos' ... are you meaning Ancistrus catfish? The common pleco grows to a massive size and so 'a few' of those I can't recommend. I'll also warn you if you are meaning ancistrus cats that you might have problems later on keeping multiple ones.
 
I found this out to my horror recently. I had two male ancistrus. They were brothers. They lived together in peace for nearly 3 years and then two weeks ago I came into the room and sand was flying everywhere. All my stock were in hiding and in the middle of my tank were my two ancistrus boys knocking the heck out of each other ... it was a pretty frightening sight and I'm used to battling cichlids.
In the end one of my boys had to go and spend the night in my Dad's tank and was given to my lfs in the morning. I'm still dealing with the aftermath now as the remaining ancistrus has now become completely reclusive.
 
 
Okay, on to your original question. I've found feeding a community tank can be a bit problematic - especially if you just want to feed one lot of food. Fish of different sizes have different sized mouths and some fish are fast to the food and others are slower. It often means that the fish which are slow or living on the bottom go without. I now feed TetraPrima and I scatter it the full length of the tank, crumbling it smaller as I go for the smaller fish, but this leaves my cories without and my reclusive catfish hungry too. To deal with this I got some sinking catfish pellets and sinking algae wafers. I'm currently using New Era as my cories seem to love them - they don't last long!
 
I'd recommend using the same principle and adding something frozen as a treat too - I add frozen bloodworms/mysis/artemia with a turkey baster - again scattering it in different places so they all get a chance to eat some.
 
Hopefully I've been of some help. Good luck with your tank

Thanks for the reply, ive heard that roseline barbs are relatively peaceful, especially since im getting 12, so i think I might give them a try, especially since they will be a while after my angels, so they will be larger than them. 
 
Yes i meant Ancistrus catfish, i dont plan on getting any common plecos, i was thinking of getting 2 females and 1 male for the tank, and theres multiple areas for them to hide for territorial purposes. So i think ill also give these little guys a try, always wanted a few.
 
I see what your saying, my geos eat most of the food before it hits the floor, so cory cats may not be the best idea for me, i feel like some bushy nose plecos would do better because i can just feed them veggies. 
 
Do you think i have to many top dwellers though? I mean its a 6x2x2 but i dont like to crowd my fish if unnecessary. I might either just stick with a large group of denison barbs. It just kind of feels like my tank is empty, the angels and denison barbs however might liven the whole tank up. 
 
The normal diet i feed right now, is shrimp, shrimp pellets, brine shrimp, blood worms, new life spectrum sinking pellets, hikari carnivore pellets, hakari algae wafers, and cobalt flake food. But most of this food is large, however it does soak up water quickly and decompose so its easy to eat. So i guess ill wait a little longer and see what happens, i still need to sell all my polypterus before i can start a real community tank.

It's a common misconception that fin nipping is aggression. A lot of times the fins of other fish are the only source of the bulk that these fish need in their diet. Processed diets are great for providing the nutrients but may lack enough bulk for some fish. I've seen supplementing with brine shrimp stop fin nipping. True aggressive behavior can result in shredded fins but it looks different from fin nipping. Often, it comes in the form of sneak attacks more so than outright aggression. It takes does take a trained eye to know the difference. That being said, brine shrimp is not a guarantee to stop fin nipping once it has been a learned behavior, but it definitely can help deter it.

Thanks for the info, ill definitely look out for the behavior, but i think a large hierarchy might help a lot with their aggression towards other fish. 

 

[malfunction]

I don't think you'll have much of an issue with the denisonii barbs - I have them in one of my set ups with geos of varying sizes and I'm yet to see any fin nipping or aggression at all. I think if they have a big enough group, they'll completely ignore all other fish in the tank. I currently have 6 (3 died when I moved) and I have a friend with 3 in her community tank. Neither of us have any problems.

I also don't think there will necessarily be a problem with mixing geos and cories. I also have some bronze cories in the same tank, again with no issues. What works for me is to use both flakes and sinking pellets in the same feeding. The greediest fish immediately rise to the top and devour the flakes, whilst the slower bottom dwellers like my geos and cories tend to go for the sinking pellets. So far everyone seems happy. I find this works best with very small pellets like these:

http/www.finestfishfood.co.uk/tropical-food/cichlid-food/cichlid-granulate

At night, I simply drop in a pleco wafer for my twig catfish.

Personally, I think that's a lot of fish for the tank and it might get a little crowded when they're all fully grown. A 6' tank gets full a lot faster than you think! But everyone's preference is different so it may well work for you.

 

[Byron]

Picking up on the barb/angelfish issue...this is not a good combination.  I'll come back to fin nipping misconceptions momentarily, but right off the top the angelfish need a much different setup than Denison Barbs (Sahyadria denisonii).  The latter are cooler water fish, and they need more current than angelfish will appreciate; Denisons have a high oxygen requirement which is best achieved by water current.  And they come from fast-flowing streams and rivers where they occur in shoals in rocky pools.  Exact opposite of a suitable angelfish habitat which is very quiet slow rivers and flooded forest.  The gourami need the latter as well, so also not a good match with Denisons.
 
On the fin nipping, there is a difference between fish nipping their own species, and fish nipping other species.  The latter must be avoided always, as this does stress the nipped fish and in the case of angelfish will almost inevitably lead to poor health and possibly death.  Denisons may nip within their group, this is a sometimes thing, but having a larger number usually prevents this, and here eight is the minimum.  They are fast swimmers, so a long tank with a good current end to end would suit them nicely.  Other barbs for upper fish would be the best in tankmates.  The temperature could be lower, low 70's F is best.
 
Byron.

 

[sawickib]

I don't think you'll have much of an issue with the denisonii barbs - I have them in one of my set ups with geos of varying sizes and I'm yet to see any fin nipping or aggression at all. I think if they have a big enough group, they'll completely ignore all other fish in the tank. I currently have 6 (3 died when I moved) and I have a friend with 3 in her community tank. Neither of us have any problems.

I also don't think there will necessarily be a problem with mixing geos and cories. I also have some bronze cories in the same tank, again with no issues. What works for me is to use both flakes and sinking pellets in the same feeding. The greediest fish immediately rise to the top and devour the flakes, whilst the slower bottom dwellers like my geos and cories tend to go for the sinking pellets. So far everyone seems happy. I find this works best with very small pellets like these:

http/www.finestfishfood.co.uk/tropical-food/cichlid-food/cichlid-granulate

At night, I simply drop in a pleco wafer for my twig catfish.

Personally, I think that's a lot of fish for the tank and it might get a little crowded when they're all fully grown. A 6' tank gets full a lot faster than you think! But everyone's preference is different so it may well work for you.

Thanks for the advice, after hearing all these mixed opinions on them, i think i will stay away, seeing that i most likely will be paying 8$+ on each of them, i dont want to get a group of 20 and have it not work out.
 
I may try the cories, but the problem is the geos eat everything, top or bottom haha and their no where near being adults so they still eat a lot.
 
I will definitely be getting some bulk shrimp pellets though, preferably ones that disintegrate quickly in the water.
 
I actually dont plan on over stocking, i think i will be able to see whats a proper tank stocking as i go along.

Picking up on the barb/angelfish issue...this is not a good combination.  I'll come back to fin nipping misconceptions momentarily, but right off the top the angelfish need a much different setup than Denison Barbs (Sahyadria denisonii).  The latter are cooler water fish, and they need more current than angelfish will appreciate; Denisons have a high oxygen requirement which is best achieved by water current.  And they come from fast-flowing streams and rivers where they occur in shoals in rocky pools.  Exact opposite of a suitable angelfish habitat which is very quiet slow rivers and flooded forest.  The gourami need the latter as well, so also not a good match with Denisons.
 
On the fin nipping, there is a difference between fish nipping their own species, and fish nipping other species.  The latter must be avoided always, as this does stress the nipped fish and in the case of angelfish will almost inevitably lead to poor health and possibly death.  Denisons may nip within their group, this is a sometimes thing, but having a larger number usually prevents this, and here eight is the minimum.  They are fast swimmers, so a long tank with a good current end to end would suit them nicely.  Other barbs for upper fish would be the best in tankmates.  The temperature could be lower, low 70's F is best.
 
Byron.

Thanks for the info on that, i thought i saw that they preferred colder temps, it was in Celsius so i didnt think much of it, definitely a mistake. As of right now i actually have really good oxygen flow with 2 55/75 aqueon filters and a fluval fx5 canister. 
 
So the gouramis and angelfish are ok with each other right? Ive had them together for about 5 months with no issues, really my problems right now are my 2 big angels i have, i dont have the other 6 angels in yet and they seem to be territorial with the other geos, i think i may have a mated pair. 

 
Do you have any other possibly recommended schooling and colorful fish to substitute the roseline sharks? I think im going away from congos, not the most pretty fish, sure are active though.

 

[Byron]

So the gouramis and angelfish are ok with each other right? Ive had them together for about 5 months with no issues, really my problems right now are my 2 big angels i have, i dont have the other 6 angels in yet and they seem to be territorial with the other geos, i think i may have a mated pair.
 

 
Generally, angelfish and gourami are not a good mix.  Both are very similar in behaviours, males being very territorial.  It may well work here, as you have space (something others with smaller tanks must keep in mind, as such combos are not always wise). And Pearl Gourami are one of the more peaceful gourami, so a better choice for this.  But be prepared for arguments between them, if more angelfish are added. 
 
Similarly, mixing ciochlid species is not usually advisable, though there are exceptions.  Personally, I would not have other cichlids in with angelfish, and I think you are seeing why.
 
A male angelfish will regard the entire tank as his domain, particularly if he has been living in the tank for a while.  Other angelfish will likely not be accepted in "his" space, so when others are added be prepared to have to remove them quickly.  Sometimes removing the existing angels, rearranging the aquascape, and then introducing all the angels together can help; sometimes not.  It largely depends upon the temperament of the existing fish.
 
 

Do you have any other possibly recommended schooling and colorful fish to substitute the roseline sharks? I think im going away from congos, not the most pretty fish, sure are active though.
 

 
I have a real love for Congo Tetra...but this is another fish I would not combine with angelfish, and you have exactly mentioned the reason--they are too active.  Angelfish really are sedate, laid-back fish, and they are so beautiful they deserve an accommodating environment.  I would avoid all barbs and danio off the top.  Rasbora make good tankmates, the medium to larger species depending upon the size of the angelfish at present.  And several of the characins, especially those with a disk-shape (linear fish like glowlights, neons, cardinals, rummys, etc are more likely to be eaten) such as some of the species in the Rosy Tetra, Roberti Tetra, Phantom Tetra group.  If you want colour, the Rosy and Roberti are good choices.  Some of this group are notorious fin nippers, to be avoided--Serpae, Bleeding Heart, etc.  The larger hatchetfish (those in Thoracocharax and Gasteropelecus) work.  Substrate fish are generally good, like corys, the common whiptail, and smaller (not over 5 inches) pleco.
 
With more thought I might have other suggestions.
 
Byron.

 

[sawickib]

Yes im starting to see this, i may have to rehome my 3 angles and keep my 4 angels in my 75 gallon, atm i have 7 but they arent all together. Can i have a single angel and keep my 4 pearl gouramis, or do you think i would still have problems?
 
The angels actually dont seem to mind the geos, but are really not looking the pearls unfortunately. My two big ones are guarding a pair of leaves together which makes me think they are a mated pair.
 
If i were to drop the angels would my stocking options be much better? Because it seems that would be a better option, then i could have more top and bottom dwelling fish.
 
Ill have to look into those other dither fish tomorrow thank you for the recommendations, do you have any more that you can think of for the common community tank for bottom dwelling species? I will end up having a lot of room on the bottom, and should probably really only add one more group of top dwelling fish, a large group, and then a few shoals of bottom dwellers.
 
My geos can eat any fish that is the size of a guppy so anything like that is out of the option.

 

[Akasha72]

I have purple gold headed harlequin rasbora's in with my angels and they are fine - the purple harlequin is a lovely looking fish - google them if your interested (not coming up on trusted sights) and look at some images. If you get a good shoal of 10 or more they look amazing when fully coloured up.
 
I also have two types of emperor tetra too. I have some of these http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/inpaichthys-kerri/ and also the nematobrycon palmeri  http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nematobrycon-palmeri/
 
Both are a nice looking fish and large enough not to be cichlid food. Of the two the kerri is more peaceful, the palmeri is bossier and mildly aggressive (very mildly, rarely any harm done) especially to other males. They can be territorial

 

[crazychris]

OP, just as a matter of interest, how much are Denison barbs over there in the US? They're quite expensive here for just a medium-sized one.

 

[Byron]

Yes im starting to see this, i may have to rehome my 3 angles and keep my 4 angels in my 75 gallon, atm i have 7 but they arent all together. Can i have a single angel and keep my 4 pearl gouramis, or do you think i would still have problems?

 
 
This is difficult to predict, as individual fish can be more or less "normal" if you see my meaning.  A strongly dominant male angelfish is likely not going to accept the gourami, whereas another angelfish might.
 

If i were to drop the angels would my stocking options be much better? Because it seems that would be a better option, then i could have more top and bottom dwelling fish.
 

 
I don't know what the 10 various geophagus are, but my initial thinking would be that they might be it for cichlids in this tank, but this depends upon species.  Geophagus are substrate fish, meaning they remain in the lower third of the water column (at least I assume they would, given the species).  Angelfish being primarily upper fish, should or might work.
 

Ill have to look into those other dither fish tomorrow thank you for the recommendations, do you have any more that you can think of for the common community tank for bottom dwelling species? I will end up having a lot of room on the bottom, and should probably really only add one more group of top dwelling fish, a large group, and then a few shoals of bottom dwellers.
 
My geos can eat any fish that is the size of a guppy so anything like that is out of the option.

 
 
Here again we are into the "questionable" area.  I don't know how the various geos behave, but as mentioned above they are basically substrate fish.  Larger corys should be OK, thinking more of the truly larger species such as those now in the genus Scleromystax such as a group of S. barbatus, which should be able to look after themselves handily, see here:
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/scleromystax-barbatus/
 
As for upper level fish, this depends upon the angelfish being included or not.  With angelfish, shoaling fish are more limited, as I indicated previously, but without them, your options open up.
 
Byron.

 

[sawickib]

I have purple gold headed harlequin rasbora's in with my angels and they are fine - the purple harlequin is a lovely looking fish - google them if your interested (not coming up on trusted sights) and look at some images. If you get a good shoal of 10 or more they look amazing when fully coloured up.
 
I also have two types of emperor tetra too. I have some of these http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/inpaichthys-kerri/ and also the nematobrycon palmeri  http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nematobrycon-palmeri/
 
Both are a nice looking fish and large enough not to be cichlid food. Of the two the kerri is more peaceful, the palmeri is bossier and mildly aggressive (very mildly, rarely any harm done) especially to other males. They can be territorial

Thanks for the recommendations! Ill have to look into those, because i think i will be choosing one large group of dither fish.
 

OP, just as a matter of interest, how much are Denison barbs over there in the US? They're quite expensive here for just a medium-sized one.

They generally go from 8-12$ each here.
 
 
Byron- 
Yes i think i will be removing the angels in a week or two and then start building up a community tank, my male is very aggressive so thats a problem and hes the new guy in the tank.
 
The geos are winemilleri, winemilleri, and red head tapajos. It seems you might be right, because the only cichlids i like are angels and geos.
 
Where is that cory available! OMG it looks awesome! 
 
So generally ill be able to remove the angels and add one large group of schooling fish that are larger than guppies, are there anything like congo tetras out there?

 

[Byron]

With the angels gone, you have more options.  Congo Tetra are back in the picture [I'm assuming these got along with the geos previously?].  Stay with upper level fish, as the geos will own the lower half/third, and the "cory" if any [yes, S. barbatus is a beauty].  Congos are4 mid-level.  There are many characins that would work, just avoid any fin nippers.  If you post species you're considering I can easily comment on this.  Some of the rasbora would work too.
 
Byron.