Common Green Algae

[BiggTexx]

Completely agree with Byron's post.
 

The two plecos aren't that special, one I had for years the other is very recent purchase. They mostly hide inside ornaments and can't be seen.

They may not be a fancy breed of pleco,  but believe me they are more 'special' than you can imagine, hiding or not.
 
Again if they are common pleco, Hypostomus plecostomus, be aware that they could eventually reach 12 inches in length or larger.  Keeping them in such a small environment is not only detrimental to their overall health (and the health of your aquarium) but the reason your older one may not seem to be growing is because of the stunted growth due to the aquarium size.

 

[andyG44]

I am planning to buy another 180lt tank. I can then take some fish from this tank into the other one. But I can see this is going to take a while yet. In the meantime I will have to endure with those large water changes trying to maintain ammonia to safe levels while the the tank is being cycled... And very slowly I might add, as in "nothing is happening"...
 
My Fluval 206 filter has 3 trays. The water goes from bottom to top. The bottom tray contains a large black sponge. Before this bottom tray the water has gone through 4 orange, coarser sponges . The middle tray had ceramic rings and a few weeks ago I doubled the amount of ceramic rings. The top tray contained a bag of charcoal, which I removed a few weeks ago (I was treating for Velvet). Since the top tray is empty I could fill it with ceramic rings, would that help my damn cycle which is NOT cycling at the moment?

 

[BiggTexx]

I am planning to buy another 180lt tank. I can then take some fish from this tank into the other one. But I can see this is going to take a while yet. In the meantime I will have to endure with those large water changes trying to maintain ammonia to safe levels while the the tank is being cycled... And very slowly I might add, as in "nothing is happening"...
 
My Fluval 206 filter has 3 trays. The water goes from bottom to top. The bottom tray contains a large black sponge. Before this bottom tray the water has gone through 4 orange, coarser sponges . The middle tray had ceramic rings and a few weeks ago I doubled the amount of ceramic rings. The top tray contained a bag of charcoal, which I removed a few weeks ago (I was treating for Velvet). Since the top tray is empty I could fill it with ceramic rings, would that help my Darn cycle which is NOT cycling at the moment?

Wait, are you cycling this tank?  The one with 40+ fish?

 

[andyG44]

I am planning to buy another 180lt tank. I can then take some fish from this tank into the other one. But I can see this is going to take a while yet. In the meantime I will have to endure with those large water changes trying to maintain ammonia to safe levels while the the tank is being cycled... And very slowly I might add, as in "nothing is happening"...
 
My Fluval 206 filter has 3 trays. The water goes from bottom to top. The bottom tray contains a large black sponge. Before this bottom tray the water has gone through 4 orange, coarser sponges . The middle tray had ceramic rings and a few weeks ago I doubled the amount of ceramic rings. The top tray contained a bag of charcoal, which I removed a few weeks ago (I was treating for Velvet). Since the top tray is empty I could fill it with ceramic rings, would that help my damn cycle which is NOT cycling at the moment?

Ooops sorry for the double post.
 
Yes I am cycling this tank, before you shout at me, the tank was established and was running with c. 40 fish for weeks with no problems, then there was an accident, some panic reaction which made things much worse, now it seems I am starting from uncycled tank...
 
So what do you think, should I add an extyra load of ceramic rings on the upper tray, or should I use the charcoal bag ?

 

[Byron]

Do you have evidence that the tank is cycling over again?  To do this, you would have had to kill off most of the nitrifying bacteria, and while this can occur, it is not by any means easy to achieve.  Some antibiotics will, and of course bleach and ammonia.
 
Tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, using reliable kits like the API liquid, would be very useful, and in any "accident" these tests are basic steps (along with pH too).  If you have numbers can you post please?
 
Although the fore-going is the more crucial at present, I will respond to your filter question.  The ceramic disks is the first stage of filtration in a canister, and is intended to trap larger bits so they do not clog the subsequent finer media.  Obviously, bacteria colonize the surfaces so there is biological filtration working too, as well as the mechanical.  So having more of the ceramic media can do no harm, but I would have it close to the initial media the water passes through, at the bottom it seems.  The last stage of filtration, presumably the top, is where the white floss/wool type pad is placed.
 
Byron.

 

[andyG44]

I am waiting for a new API test kit to be delivered. In the meantime I am using the old API kit, very old, but the ammonia test seems to work (I test against plain tap water). I have ammonia 0.25-0.5 with daily, large water changes. Nitrites are 0 (or the kit is broken). pH is around 8.0-8.3 and this is my tap water's pH. TDS is 220-400, tap water is 240-ish.
 
To lower the TDS and the pH, and get rid of contaminants, I have occasionally used pure RO water with those water changes. But as my RO is slow, I curenly use like 20% RO, the rest is tap. I treat tap water with Waterlife Haloex Dechlorinator (or Tetra Aqua Safe) for like a few seconds before I put in tank. With the water changes I also use the necessary quantity of Waterlife Bacterlife Friendly Bacteria or the Tetra Safestart or something, hoping to give the cycle a boost.
 
My filter has these elements in order:
INPUT
(1) 4 large orange coarse sponges that seem to trap the worst bits
(2) bottom tray - black fine sponge, also gets quite filthy
(3) middle tray - ceramic rings (hollow cylinders)
(4) top tray - carbon
OUTPUT
 
In my case the orange sponges (1) and the bottom black sponge (2) trap all the dirt, so the ceramic disks have always been clean every time I had to clean the filter canister. I had assumed that the hollow, ceramic disks were there to grow bacteria not to trap more dirt.
 
The diagram of the filter is here:

 

[BiggTexx]

Where are the orange sponges located?
 
Normally you would have the coarse black sponge, then the ceramics, then filter floss to polish in a 3 tray filter.  I am running a 4 tray filter so the only difference is the addition of bio-balls between the ceramics and filter floss.

 

[Byron]

I'll leave the filter issue to BiggTexx as that one is quite different from my older canisters.
 
Back to the "cycling" though, if you were testing and did not get ammonia (above the minimal level now) or nitrites, I doubt the tank was cycling again.  I am rather surprised by zero nitrates...with the fish load and so few plants I would expect some nitrate to show up.  Of course, denitrification in the filter and substrate may be part of it.  The API test is a bit tricky; Regent #2 needs to be shaken for a good 2 minutes, not 30 seconds as the instructions say (or used to), or the reading may be faulty.

 

[NickAu]

 
I can quickly answer this Nick.

Thank you Byron.

 

[andyG44]

When one evening the water was cloudy and smelly, due to the electrics being off for some time, and a few fish were on their sides/been taken by the current, I panicked and (a) made large water change with untreated tap water, (b) cleaned the filter with very hot water (thinking I was killing the bad bacteria that were making my water smell bad). Since then I had an outbreak of Velvet (which I treated through the daily water changes), lost a lot of fish to eithe Velvet or to some other mysterious disease which killed fish in 24 hours from first becoming "lethargic" but no outwards symptoms, removed 6 tiger barbs that were terrorising my other fish, things appeared stable for two days, lost two guppies ( one vanished the other floating), no deaths today.
 
Throughout this ordeal, nitrates are "stuck" at 5ppm. Ammonia "stuck" at 0.25-0.5. As you know ammonia is exceedingly hard to tell when it goes slightly green. Nitrites "stuck" at 0. Last evening I did a 50% water change. I used 65lt of tap water with Waterlife Haloex and the rest with pure RO. I will test again later today to see where we are with ammonia.
 
I attach a picture of the small plec some asked to see it. It was taken early this am (was still semi dark outside).
 
**********************************
Fluval water filter operation.
 
In the picture of the water filter the left hand side vertical sponges, shown as white, four of them, in reality they are orange in colour and quite coarse, this is where the water comes in from and runs from top to bottom and through the whole length of the sponges.
 
The water then hits the bottom tray which has a hefty fine sponge. This also gets quite filthy.
 
Above this tray are the ceramic rings which I have doubled in quantity.
 
Finally the water hits the top tray which is the activated carbon, currently this tray is empty. I am going to fill it in with more ceramic rings, more surface area for the bacteria to take a hold on.
 
The water is "pulled" out of the filter, not pushed, in case it makes a difference.
 
************************************
 
 

 

[BiggTexx]

So, on the filter, you are probably working with a Fluval 206 model. This is going to be image heavy, so hang in there with me.
 
As sold from the manufacturer, the vertical portion is a foam screen frame which would have two thick foam blocks that act as the first stage of filtration (mechanical).  Fluval sells white blocks, so the orange is either an replacement brand or is stained from a medication.

 
The first tray (bottom of canister) will be the bio-foam. This is the second stage of filtration (mechanical and biological) and traps smaller particulates that pass through the foam blocks. Due to the complex pore system, the bio-foam also encourages growth of bacteria.  These have an eggshell crate pad design and are normally black in color.

The second tray would be BIOMAX media (ceramic rings) in the stage three of filtration (biological). These rings again have a complex pore system where bacteria can thrive.

 
The last tray (in a three tray filter) would be a combination of filter floss (polishing pads) and then carbon as stage 4 filtration.  In the bottom of this tray is the polishing pads which help to remove micro particles and further clear the water. laid on top of the polishing pads would be the carbon bags. The carbon is there to help with discoloration, odors, etc.

 
From what you have mentioned, it sounds like you are missing the carbon (you took it out already) and the polishing pads. This leaves you with stage 4 as an open canvas. My suggestion* would be to add some additional BIOMAX as you mentioned or even some C- or G-Nodes (other media options), but only fill 2/3 of the way full, then add two or 3 layers of polishing pads on top.  
 
Also remember that maintenance is crucial!
 
Monthly:

• Clean Impeller and Shaft; and
• Check and lube gaskets; and
• Rinse Stage one filter foam screen in old tank water (dunk and squeeze a few times)

 
Every 3 months:

• Monthly maintenance; and
• Check/Clean strainer housing; and
• Rinse Stage two bio-foam in old tank water (dunk and squeeze a few times); and
• Replace the polishing pads

Every 6 months:

• Monthly maintenance; and
• 3 month maintenance; and
• Replace HALF of the bio foam; and
• Replace HALF of the filter foam blocks in the filter foam screen

 
*I personally don't use carbon.  If my water was smelly and discolored, I would find the cause of the issue and fix it, not let carbon try and mask it.  Just my opinion on the carbon matter.

As for the pleco, that sure looks like a common to me.  With two, eventually you are going to need a 100 gallon or larger tank... Also keep in mind that plecos are not the best algae eaters they are made out to be. They do eat it, but they also need a varied diet of vegetables and sometimes wood.

 

[Byron]

When one evening the water was cloudy and smelly, due to the electrics being off for some time, and a few fish were on their sides/been taken by the current, I panicked and (a) made large water change with untreated tap water, (b) cleaned the filter with very hot water (thinking I was killing the bad bacteria that were making my water smell bad). Since then I had an outbreak of Velvet (which I treated through the daily water changes), lost a lot of fish to eithe Velvet or to some other mysterious disease which killed fish in 24 hours from first becoming "lethargic" but no outwards symptoms, removed 6 tiger barbs that were terrorising my other fish, things appeared stable for two days, lost two guppies ( one vanished the other floating), no deaths today.
 

 
This is one very good reason why overstocking an aquarium, or having conflicting species together, can be disastrous.  When power is off, the system is unable to continue functioning.  In a balanced system, a power shortage of several hours has almost no detrimental effect, the temperature drop (as in winter) generally being the most serious issue.  Now you know.
 

Throughout this ordeal, nitrates are "stuck" at 5ppm. Ammonia "stuck" at 0.25-0.5. As you know ammonia is exceedingly hard to tell when it goes slightly green. Nitrites "stuck" at 0. Last evening I did a 50% water change. I used 65lt of tap water with Waterlife Haloex and the rest with pure RO. I will test again later today to see where we are with ammonia.
 

 
I'm still not worried with these numbers, but let us know the test results later.  The cycle is not likely to have been lost, although it may have been harmed depending upon the medication used for Velvet, but that is past.
 

I attach a picture of the small plec some asked to see it. It was taken early this am (was still semi dark outside).
 

 
Identifying species of plecos is not always easy, and I will defer to BiggTex on this being the common pleco.  You should look for a new home for these, as they get very large, will have a very considerable detrimental effect on the biology, and have been known to attack and eat small fish.  As they mature they eat less and less algae.  Some species are not vegetarian at all.

 

[Akasha72]

looks like a common to me too I'm afraid 

 
A young ancistrus looks like this 
 

 
 
and yours doesn't look like that...

 

[BiggTexx]

 As they mature they eat less and less algae.  Some species are not vegetarian at all.

Sorry, I should have clarified. This was in regards to a common.

 

[andyG44]

The (common) plec shown in the photo is new had him around 2-3 weeks. The other plec is larger and had him for 2 years. I will return both to the shop asap. I have a lot of (bladder) snails and a magnet brush for cleaning the algae! I had no idea that the very, very timid plecs can kill my other fish!
 
Today I received the new API test kit. The other one I was using was dated 2006. Anyway. As you know I did a 40-50% water change last evening and have not fed the fish since. This morning I cleaned the filter and added a tray full of ceramic rings so mnow I have two trays of ceramic rings. I cleaned the entry sponges (orange) with treated tap water but did not disturb the rest of the filter. The thinking is I want to get rid of the worst dirt which is trapped by those sponges and also treated tap water is what I use to make huge water changes. Treated means the chlorine has been neutralised or so we hope.
 
So with the new test kit the results are: Ammonia 0.25, Nitrites 0, Nitrates (hold breath) 80ppm !!!! I am at a loss. I had thought my tank/gravel/filter were not cycled but I am showing a lot of nitrates even though there was a 50% watere change last evening. Where did they come from?
 
What shall I do now?