Columbian Red Fin Tetra Problem

[ChilliPepper]

One of my Columbians has got some dark patches over his body, particularly his mouth/nose and few spots on tail, and another one has some darkening around his gills.

I do a 30% water change weekly, my water stats are all fine Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. There are four Columbians along with the other cichlids. He has been darkening gradually, so it isn't anything to do with me adding my oscar two weeks ago.

I lost a Red Fin in December 2008 with a similar thing, it started with a darkened line along his spine, and gradually got worse. Eventually he got a couple of pussy spot things. I tried isolating him and treating him with a bacterial medication but we had to euthanise him eventually as he went downhill.

As my water is fine, I am wondering if it is caused by possible stress as there are only 4 of them in the tank? They don't act stressed and swim about a lot and eat as normal, but at a loss really as to why this has happened again.

Any ideas what I can do? My other fish are fine, but I will not take the risk of it affecting them as well.

 

[WILDER]

How big are the spots on the tail. Are they the size of a grain of salt or bigger.
Are the spots soft like filled with fluid or hard looking.
Any redness to the spots.
What colour are the spots.
Do the spots look like a cluster of berries or eggs.

If spots are filled with fluid it't best to issolate, as if they burst they can infect the tank.

Lost any fish to being bloated, thin, bent spines.

 

[ChilliPepper]

How big are the spots on the tail. Are they the size of a grain of salt or bigger.
Are the spots soft like filled with fluid or hard looking.
Any redness to the spots.
What colour are the spots.
Do the spots look like a cluster of berries or eggs.

If spots are filled with fluid it't best to issolate, as if they burst they can infect the tank.

Lost any fish to being bloated, thin, bent spines.

Hi, thanks for reply Wilder.

The spots seem more within the fin if you get me, rather a discolouration of the fin. Quite small. Definitely not like a grain of salt or ich or anything like that. It doesn't look like he has any of the common fish illnesses. No redness. They are a dark grey/black, and around one's nose and mouth and some of his body, and the other one's gills. They don't look like they are stuck on, more internal and showing throught his scales.

I had a similar thing happen to a Columbian in Dec 08, as I posted below. You tried to help me with him. I bought a hospital tank and dosed against internal bacteria and it didn't make any difference, in fact he got worse and I think he was more miserable as he was on his own. We had to put him to rest in the end, poor thing.

I don't understand why this only seems to affect the Columbian Red Fins? All my other fish are fine.

 

[roadmaster]

One of my Columbians has got some dark patches over his body, particularly his mouth/nose and few spots on tail, and another one has some darkening around his gills.

I do a 30% water change weekly, my water stats are all fine Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. There are four Columbians along with the other cichlids. He has been darkening gradually, so it isn't anything to do with me adding my oscar two weeks ago.

I lost a Red Fin in December 2008 with a similar thing, it started with a darkened line along his spine, and gradually got worse. Eventually he got a couple of pussy spot things. I tried isolating him and treating him with a bacterial medication but we had to euthanise him eventually as he went downhill.

As my water is fine, I am wondering if it is caused by possible stress as there are only 4 of them in the tank? They don't act stressed and swim about a lot and eat as normal, but at a loss really as to why this has happened again.

Any ideas what I can do? My other fish are fine, but I will not take the risk of it affecting them as well.

I have eleven blue red columbian tetras with an Electric Blue Dempsey and YoYo loaches. I began with six but one developed black around the lips or mouth area, and died within two weeks . My water quality I did not feel was a factor and so after monitoring the fish and water for another week, I purchased six more. I am thinking you might wish to consider adding to the school if tank size permits. I noticed when they were in smaller numbers ,they did indeed spend a lot of time chasing one or two fish. With larger school, Mine simply act like there's been a fire alarm and they aren't certain which way to go. They no longer single out the odd fish or two for chasing round the tank.
I never did find out what the black around the mouth area was but happily,, no other fish have since developed similar syptoms. (knocks on wood). P.S. I would think in a tank with cichlids,, and healthy biological activity, there would be some measurable NitrAtes.

 

[ChilliPepper]

One of my Columbians has got some dark patches over his body, particularly his mouth/nose and few spots on tail, and another one has some darkening around his gills.

I do a 30% water change weekly, my water stats are all fine Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. There are four Columbians along with the other cichlids. He has been darkening gradually, so it isn't anything to do with me adding my oscar two weeks ago.

I lost a Red Fin in December 2008 with a similar thing, it started with a darkened line along his spine, and gradually got worse. Eventually he got a couple of pussy spot things. I tried isolating him and treating him with a bacterial medication but we had to euthanise him eventually as he went downhill.

As my water is fine, I am wondering if it is caused by possible stress as there are only 4 of them in the tank? They don't act stressed and swim about a lot and eat as normal, but at a loss really as to why this has happened again.

Any ideas what I can do? My other fish are fine, but I will not take the risk of it affecting them as well.

I have eleven blue red columbian tetras with an Electric Blue Dempsey and YoYo loaches. I began with six but one developed black around the lips or mouth area, and died within two weeks . My water quality I did not feel was a factor and so after monitoring the fish and water for another week, I purchased six more. I am thinking you might wish to consider adding to the school if tank size permits. I noticed when they were in smaller numbers ,they did indeed spend a lot of time chasing one or two fish. With larger school, Mine simply act like there's been a fire alarm and they aren't certain which way to go. They no longer single out the odd fish or two for chasing round the tank.
I never did find out what the black around the mouth area was but happily,, no other fish have since developed similar syptoms. (knocks on wood). P.S. I would think in a tank with cichlids,, and healthy biological activity, there would be some measurable NitrAtes.

Well I didn't get any nitrate readings when I checked my water last night. Surely it's better to not have any anyway?! The tank is mature as well, seeded with mature media at the start and been running over a year.
I was thinking of maybe adding two more... However, what to do with the affected fish? Will they heal on their own? Stress could maybe be a factor as there is only four of them, I have noticed a little fin nipping recently amongst them.

 

[WILDER]

Ok.
Is it possible to load a pic up onto the site.

Grey patches or spots can be columnaris.
Black spots can be black spots but I think there usually on top of the skin.
Also black spots, and black markings can be fish tb.

Do you have any snails in the tank.
Do the fish look skinny or bloated.
Lost any fish to bent spines.

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Ok.
Is it possible to load a pic up onto the site.

Grey patches or spots can be columnaris.
Black spots can be black spots but I think there usually on top of the skin.
Also black spots, and black markings can be fish tb.

Do you have any snails in the tank.
Do the fish look skinny or bloated.
Lost any fish to bent spines.

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

I'll try and get a pic tonight.

How long does columnnaris take to develop?

No snails, no skinny or bloated fish )only after eating, greedy s"ds), not lost any fish for ages. No signs of flicking or rubbing.

 

[ChilliPepper]

I've been looking at pics here and none seem to match his symptoms... http/images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http/www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perpicture/hospital_pictures/041_c.jpg&imgrefurl=http/www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perpicture/index.php%3FStep%3D2%26GalleryId%3D2&usg=__ka4RIDbHtG0JlPV5y1RHNHWiVaY=&h=250&w=380&sz=41&hl=en&start=8&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=R-W5KrCzA6lM1M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcolumnaris%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

 

[WILDER]

I will save that link as it has some good pics.

Dark patches on fish can be ammonia burns that are healing, wounds, digging wounds, bacterial, cancer, fish tb.

Do you have any neon tetra's.

 

[WILDER]

Here is a link for you to take a look at.
http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/Q&A/changes_in_color.html

 

[ChilliPepper]

I will save that link as it has some good pics.

Dark patches on fish can be ammonia burns that are healing, wounds, digging wounds, bacterial, cancer, fish tb.

Do you have any neon tetra's.

Ammonia burns - doubtful as no ammonia present, and if so, surely more than just the Columbians would be vulnerable?

No neon tetras.

I will have a look at that link, thanks, but to be honest it really doesn't look good for the fish. My OH is going to euthanise the poor two that are affected tonight, I cannot do it. I am going to give up with Columbians as they do not seem to have any good stock around here. It is only ever the Columbians that have any problems, I'd like to stop it before it spreads to the other two as they are 100% perfectly fine at the moment. It is a shame as the two affected are still swimming about and eating, but better to go now before they really suffer I think.

 

[WILDER]

The only advice I can offer is issolating new fish for up to 4 to 6 weeks.
If you really want to keep these type of fish find a good breeder.

You could always issolate the sick fish and try a bacterial med first.

 

[ChilliPepper]

The only advice I can offer is issolating new fish for up to 4 to 6 weeks.
If you really want to keep these type of fish find a good breeder.

You could always issolate the sick fish and try a bacterial med first.

I did that before, I spent around £50 on a new tank etc for the sick one and used the anti-bac med but it didn't help. Poor thing was suffering even more as was stressed on his own. I think it's kinder to pts before he suffers.

I do like the Columbians, but there are so many other fish to choose from so will just try something else. Never had much luck with them.

 

[WILDER]

Ok. I understand.
Good Luck with the rest of the fish.

 

[CentrarchidFan]

I went through the same problem with Columbian tetras. Mine were kept in a group of about a dozen, and they all succumbed to the problem you describe over a period of about six months. I removed the sick ones to a quarantine tank and tried six or so different antibiotics (not on the same fish!), keeping meticulous notes on duration and effects, but I was never able to have any success treating this malady. I tried to keep their numbers up by replacing stock, but all new introductions eventually came down with the disease, even if no fishes in the tank were exhibiting symptoms at that time.

The black patches appeared to me to possibly be melanin in the fishes' cells responding to the disease. The patches would increase gradually over a period of weeks, or even months, and usually culminate in one or two open ulcerations, usually near the dorsal fin. Necrosis and erosion of the front of the mouth on the upper jaw would often occur also (this can be difficult to see on small tetras). Fishes not exhibiting the ulcers eventually died of osmoregulatory problems (those that were not euthanized). No other fishes were affected, although I did not have any other tetras in the tank.

I'm sad to say that I gave up on this species. They are attractive and very active, but they did not fare well in my tank.