TamarackTTC
New Member
Does anyone use a CO2 system in their live planted tank? Any recommendations on a good system?
CO2 system
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Hyr
Fish Fanatic
I haven't personally ever used one, but for my 30 gallon I originally considered on using the AquaTek mini co2 valve and a paintball tank for just over 100$ in price. I've since decided not to do co2 at all; if a leak or error happens, I don't want my fish to die.
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SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
Yeah at the very least for a ok system you are looking at 100$ to 120$
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TamarackTTC
New Member
Yeah I have a 75 gallon tank and it's 25" high. So I don't know properly how to purchase for that. One concern I have is getting deep enough into the 25"
Before going down this road, decide if you really need CO2 diffusion. It depends upon your intended type of planted tank; an established tank with fish will produce more CO2 naturally than many realize. Adding a CO2 system is adding another factor to water chemistry and it now seems likely that it will affect fish. I note you are in Washington state (I'm in Vancouver, BC north of you) in Olympia, west of the cascades, so I would expect your source water to be very soft.
SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
I agree somewhat with you Byron.But from a aquascaper type of view co2 is quite important while not vital to most plants to have a lush, well grown,thick type of plant co2 is almost always vital.CO2 also does not change the water chemistry as much as oxygen can not get displaced and that is a basic fact of science.Only thing it changes is PH and if at a significant bpm it will at the most go down by 1.Something though that does matter is your lighting and fertilizer.If you do not intend to have high light or dose ferts then it is really not needed.
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TamarackTTC
New Member
What does the soft water mean? I believe we are coming off an artesian well at about 7.5.
Hyr
Fish Fanatic
Soft water means low mineral content in the water, hard means lots of minerals in the water. Flint, Michigan would have extremely hard water riddled with lead. Different fish need different levels of mineral content; guppies are particularly happy in harder water, where as tetras, are kind of on the softer end. That's where compatibility issues arise; you must keep them within the same range.
Hardness is general measured in mg/l (ppm). Another measurement is dkH(carbonate hardness) and gkH(general hardness).
To convert to ppm using dkH: dkH * 17.86 = ppm
To convert to dkH using ppm: ppm / 17.86 = dkH
To test your water, purchase a Master Test Kit by API. I would not recommend using strips as they're notorious for being somewhat inaccurate. They're about $30, where I live.
To find out information about the fish you'd like to purchase, use seriouslyfish.com. It's written by experts; not hobbyists. You can find the hardness for each fish there, along with different compatibility issues between fish.
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TamarackTTC
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Hyr
Fish Fanatic
1) Byron was talking about water chemistry, and how different factors, including co2, effect it. I'll let him explain on that one; I don't quite understand it well enough to tell someone confidently.
2) It matters alot; you can kill your fish by having incorrect mineral content.
In my opinion, it matters just as much as pH, if not more. Different fishies have different needs; they're all like individual pets. As I said, some need harder, some need softer. PLEASE LOOK INTO THIS MORE BEFORE BUYING ANYTHING.
Cheers, Hyr.
Considering the water chemistry, of the three parameters GH, KH and pH, the GH (general or total hardness) is the more significant for fish. The pH is important, but provided it is not extreme (either way) and is stable, it will cause fewer issues for fish than an inappropriate GH.
Water is one of if not the most solvent liquid on this planet, which means that it easily and readily assimilates substances it comes into contact with, such as minerals (that make it harder) or organics (that tend to make it softer); it can also pick up toxins and any substance. It picks these substances up from the air, the ground, and rocks it runs over or through. Every aquarium with live fish accumulates organics, and as these are broken down the process produces CO2, which in term forms carbonic acid, thus lowering the pH. The extent to which this occurs depends largely upon the initial GH and KH and the fish load (more or larger fish = more organics). Water changes and other maintenance also factor in.
The GH is the level of dissolved mineral in the water, and primarily this refers to calcium and magnesium. Other minerals may or may not be present, but they are normally at very low levels and not really a factor. The calcium and magnesium levels are what GH measures. And these do significantly impact fish. So if you are on a private well, you need to test the GH, KH and pH of your source water. API make a liquid test kit for GH/KH, and one for pH. The pH is worth having, as periodic pH tests can be helpful. You may only use the GH/KH kit once, so another alternative is to find a reliable fish store that will test your source water. If you do this, make certain they give you the test number and the unit of measurement; terms like "medium hard" mean nothing without the number. And as there are different units of measurement (Hyr in post #8 referenced some of these) you/we need to know what unit they are using.
The KH is carbonate hardness, often called Alkalinity. This is related to the GH, so a high GH usually means the KH will be high too, but not always. There is no need to delve into this, but KH is important for aquarists because it buffers the pH. The higher the KH, the more buffering capacity, which means the pH will remain stable at the level it is in the source water. If the KH is low, the natural biological processes in an aquarium will tend to soften the water somewhat, but more importantly acidify it, lowering the pH. This is not usually problematical, depending upon the state of thee source water parameters and the fish species, and maintenance (regular water changes).
So adding diffused CO2 might be significant, or minimal, with respect to water chemistry.
But back to my initial post in this thread, it would be useful for us to know the sort of planted tank you intend. CO2 may or may not provide much benefit. But we need to know the intended end, the water parameters to start with, and the fish and plant species. Diffused CO2 can impact fish health, that is now known. The complex biological and chemical processes in an aquarium need to be carefully thought through.
The photos below are of two of my tanks (a 70g, 90g and 115g) as they have appeared over the last decade. None of these have ever had CO2 added by any means. And in some of them, the build-up of natural CO2 during the night has been sufficient to cause the fish to react, so that is further proof of just how much CO2 can occur naturally.
Water is one of if not the most solvent liquid on this planet, which means that it easily and readily assimilates substances it comes into contact with, such as minerals (that make it harder) or organics (that tend to make it softer); it can also pick up toxins and any substance. It picks these substances up from the air, the ground, and rocks it runs over or through. Every aquarium with live fish accumulates organics, and as these are broken down the process produces CO2, which in term forms carbonic acid, thus lowering the pH. The extent to which this occurs depends largely upon the initial GH and KH and the fish load (more or larger fish = more organics). Water changes and other maintenance also factor in.
The GH is the level of dissolved mineral in the water, and primarily this refers to calcium and magnesium. Other minerals may or may not be present, but they are normally at very low levels and not really a factor. The calcium and magnesium levels are what GH measures. And these do significantly impact fish. So if you are on a private well, you need to test the GH, KH and pH of your source water. API make a liquid test kit for GH/KH, and one for pH. The pH is worth having, as periodic pH tests can be helpful. You may only use the GH/KH kit once, so another alternative is to find a reliable fish store that will test your source water. If you do this, make certain they give you the test number and the unit of measurement; terms like "medium hard" mean nothing without the number. And as there are different units of measurement (Hyr in post #8 referenced some of these) you/we need to know what unit they are using.
The KH is carbonate hardness, often called Alkalinity. This is related to the GH, so a high GH usually means the KH will be high too, but not always. There is no need to delve into this, but KH is important for aquarists because it buffers the pH. The higher the KH, the more buffering capacity, which means the pH will remain stable at the level it is in the source water. If the KH is low, the natural biological processes in an aquarium will tend to soften the water somewhat, but more importantly acidify it, lowering the pH. This is not usually problematical, depending upon the state of thee source water parameters and the fish species, and maintenance (regular water changes).
So adding diffused CO2 might be significant, or minimal, with respect to water chemistry.
But back to my initial post in this thread, it would be useful for us to know the sort of planted tank you intend. CO2 may or may not provide much benefit. But we need to know the intended end, the water parameters to start with, and the fish and plant species. Diffused CO2 can impact fish health, that is now known. The complex biological and chemical processes in an aquarium need to be carefully thought through.
The photos below are of two of my tanks (a 70g, 90g and 115g) as they have appeared over the last decade. None of these have ever had CO2 added by any means. And in some of them, the build-up of natural CO2 during the night has been sufficient to cause the fish to react, so that is further proof of just how much CO2 can occur naturally.
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Not quite sure where you are but just be aware of 2 different standards for Co2 systems.
I recently purchased one, it was a 4mm Co2 system, Intense brand, single stage, included bubble counter check valve combo, 1L cylinder and an Atomiser which usually require high pressure to function because they produce very fine bubbles.
The 2 standards I am talking about is 4mm tubing vs 6mm (standard) tubing systems.
If you ever want to do the ADA or similar nice looking beetle counter, bubble counter, diffuser etc etc....you will need to get a 6mm tubing system.....or you can get a converter from 4 to 6mm....not sure if they exist...I'm trying to find one now
6mm system=6mm outside diameter of the tube, 4mm inner diameter
4mm system=4mm outside diameter of the tube, 2.5mm inner diameter
I recently purchased one, it was a 4mm Co2 system, Intense brand, single stage, included bubble counter check valve combo, 1L cylinder and an Atomiser which usually require high pressure to function because they produce very fine bubbles.
The 2 standards I am talking about is 4mm tubing vs 6mm (standard) tubing systems.
If you ever want to do the ADA or similar nice looking beetle counter, bubble counter, diffuser etc etc....you will need to get a 6mm tubing system.....or you can get a converter from 4 to 6mm....not sure if they exist...I'm trying to find one now
6mm system=6mm outside diameter of the tube, 4mm inner diameter
4mm system=4mm outside diameter of the tube, 2.5mm inner diameter
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