Co2 Question For A New 97g Set Up

[jkc]

Hi All,

I spent most of yesterday setting up the new tank. Hard work but rewarding once its done!!

I have taken a few pictures and will get them on here as soon as I can.

I have a question on CO2 that I hope someone can help with.

As I have recently purchased a presurised CO2 setup I have been working on briging the water parameters to what is advised (KH 5 or >).

My current readings - PH 7
KH 7

According to Chucks calculator that gives me 21ppm CO2. I dont get it thats a good amount of CO2 when im not even injecting!! As I am sitting here some of the fish are at the surface gasping for air!? (which is a sign of too much CO2 isnt it!?)

Whats going on??? I have turned an airstone on to get a bit more oxygen in the tank but surely I dont want to be injecting CO2 if my fish are already at the surface gasping!?

I do have surface movement created from the eheim but I thought that I would want as little movement as possible so that I dont lose CO2!?

Can someone let me know where im going wrong?? There are plenty of plants in the tank & I would really like to inject as Ive seen some stunning pictures of tanks that inject CO2.

HELP!! James

 

[iggy01]

You say you've been working to get the parameters to KH 5 or >. What have you been adding to the tank to do this?

Is this a brand new tank as of yesterday?

 

[jkc]

You say you've been working to get the parameters to KH 5 or >. What have you been adding to the tank to do this?

Is this a brand new tank as of yesterday?

Hi Iggy01, I use a mixture of RO & HMA filtered water to obtain the water parameters I want. I did have a 48x24x18 set up my KH was at about 3 as I keep discus. I have slowly increased this with the intentions of eventually injecting CO2. As of yesterday I set up a 48X28X20. I used just over half of the water that was in the old tank and filled it up with new water (in theory, just a large water change) The fish were put in a large container with the filter (so that the bacteria wouldnt die) and heater.

 

[iggy01]

Have you checked the ammonia level? Fish gasping at the surface obviously isn't right.

You also appear to have something skewing your KH or pH readings. You haven't been using any sort of pH buffers have you? A non-CO2 injected tank would usually have around 2- 4 mg/l CO2. 21 mg/l is way off.

Good luck!

 

[jkc]

Have you checked the ammonia level? Fish gasping at the surface obviously isn't right.

You also appear to have something skewing your KH or pH readings. You haven't been using any sort of pH buffers have you? A non-CO2 injected tank would usually have around 2- 4 mg/l CO2. 21 mg/l is way off.

Good luck!

I havent checked ammonia, I shall do so now! Think ill check everything again to be safe!! The PH,KH readings are confusing the hell out of me. I havent heard that a non-CO2 injected tank would usually have around 2 - 4 mg/l before. That seems a little odd to!? Can I ask where you found this!?

Any other opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Be right back with further test results!!

Thanks again iggy

 

[iggy01]

jkc,

The level of CO2 in the atmosphere outside is usually around 0.3-0.5 mg/l. In our homes it tends to be higher. If you are sat in a room all day with the windows closed, you will be constantly adding to the CO2 level of the room. It will generally average out at around 2- 4 mg/l. It can be higher or lower depending on how well a room is ventilated, how many people are in there etc. The water in your tank will reach equilibrium with the level of CO2 in the room.

HTH.

 

[jkc]

Thanks Iggy.

Well Ive just re-done & re-done my tests. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, PH 7 KH 9. Now according to Chucks calculator that gives me 27ppm CO2 so how is that when im not injecting!!??? and my plants arent pearling!!

Since having the airstone in there and creating a bit more aggitation on the surface by adjusting the eheim pipe fish arent gasping as much but this whole CO2 lark is confusing the heck out of me!!

Ive bought a pressurized system am I going to be able to use it safely???

 

[iggy01]

There appears to be something in your tank that is messing with your KH reading. Possibly your substrate, or maybe an ornament or decoration that is causing the KH to rise.

You will never be able to use the pH/KH chart accurately until you find the cause. You could try removing some substrate and putting it in a cup of water overnight. You could then check the KH level of the water in the cup and see if that's the cause.

Good luck!

 

[jkc]

There appears to be something in your tank that is messing with your KH reading. Possibly your substrate, or maybe an ornament or decoration that is causing the KH to rise.

You will never be able to use the pH/KH chart accurately until you find the cause. You could try removing some substrate and putting it in a cup of water overnight. You could then check the KH level of the water in the cup and see if that's the cause.

Good luck!

My substrate is sand and laterite. The only ornaments that I have in the tank are large pieces of bogwood. I cant see how either would affect KH reading really!?

I have just done a phosphate test though, result 2.5mg/l. Now as I have just changed tanks and done such a large water change I can only imagine that I must have a high level of phosphate in our tap water (I will check this tommorow) My question to you is will phosphate affect the KH/PH readings I am getting.

Personally I still think that my CO2 levels must have been resonably high as the fish were gasping. And since putting the airstone on tey have stopped!!?

I hope I havent wasted my money on buying the pressurised CO2!?

 

[jkc]

Ok, ive done a little bit more research. According to this article by chuck
http/www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Phosphate does affect readings (see paragraph headed 'The pH-KH-CO2 Relationship')

My Current readings - KH 8, PH 7, PO4 about 2.5 - 3.

So it looks like phosphate is what is affecting the readings.

So now I have two questions hopefully someone can help with.

If the phosphate is affecting the readings does that mean that if the phosphate is removed a change in the KH or PH will be expected or is simply that as I am not injecting CO2 that with the current water parameters I have, Chucks calculator is giving me a false reading??

I have tested the HMA water that I use and it does contain phosphate, about the same amount that is currently in the tank. What is the best way to remove phosphate?? I do have some of these

http/www.maidenheadaquatics.co.uk/eshop/...roducts_id=1057

on the packaging it does say that they can be used in any type of filter but does anyone know if they can definately be used in Eheims?? The other problem is that this pillow also strips nitrite & nitrate. Nitrite not a problem but in a planted tank I need a certain amount of nitrate.

Sorry always lots of questions but I dont want to rush things, id rather get it right the first time!

 

[jkc]

Ok ive just read that some of you guys use Rowaphos to remove the phosphate, do you have this in the filter at all times? If so how often do you change it. How do you ensure that the water that you are putting in when doing a water change is phosphate free. In my case I fill up 5 gallon water bottles, is it just a case of putting some of this rowaphos in the bottle whilst it fills up?? Can I use the Hagen Green until I get some Rowaphos bearing in mind that it also removes nitrate & nitrite?

So ive established that I have a problem with phosphate that needs to be removed but im still a bit clueless as to why my fish were gasping yesterday before I turned on an airstone and made the flow n the surface a bit faster, both of which are not good if I wat to inject!!

Help anyone?

 

[zig]

That amount of phosphate is not going to have any effect on the readings you are getting, between 1-3ppm PO4 is recommended and well within safe levels.

What readings are you getting from your tapwater for KH and Ph before using the RO, and whats HMA, its probably obvious but beyond me just now.

 

[jkc]

Hi Zig, thanks for having a read, im dying to set up the CO2 system but dont want to take any risks!!

I call it HMA water its probably not meant to be called that at all!? Its water that has been through a CBR 2/HMA carbon filter. I have a 3 stage RO with a ball valve so that I can mix my RO and carbon filtered water 50/50

Water parameters of CBR 2/HMA

KH 15
PH 7.4

Hope you can help

James

 

[zig]

Your CO2 readings from the water from the tap are also very high at 18ppm, let the water sit for 24 hours and it will return to normal equilibrium as outlined by iggy01 and then the normal readings will be 3-4ppm CO2.

Water delivered through the tap is delivered under pressure, and this causes a lot of dissolved gases to be trapped in the solution and when its released you can get readings like you have, which are abnormally high, these gases just take some time to be released from the water but after a while (usually 24 hours) you will get more normal readings.

You dont need a phosphate remover, it just means you probably will not have to dose any more, but you will have to check this as you may run low at weeks end.

Im not sure what you are doing wrong, maybe the tank water still has a lot of dissolved gases in it but these should disappear pretty quick with some surface agitation and return to more normal levels.

Its not impossible to work with the readings you are getting anyway direct from the tap without the RO water, if you are going to use RO water you may have to let it sit longer before adding it to the tank, but tbh i would probably just try the water from the tap and see how it fares growing plants, im sure it will be fine for 90% of all plant species.

Edit: just looking at your Ph/KH again, when you say KH15 do you mean 15ppm or 15 dh degrees, because they are very different things you know.

 

[jkc]

Zig, Thanks again for your reply. I shall run off a small container of Carbon filtered water take some readings, let it stand for 24 hrs and take some further tests. Should be interesting to see the results!

I may eventually use just the HMA water but for now I think ill stick to what im using 50/50 mix otherwise the water would be quite hard for discus.

Sorry Zig should have stated, It took 15 drops of the KH solution for it to turn yellow so according to the back of the guide thats 150mg/l (ppm) as calcium carbonate (CaCO3) Unusually High!!

You could be right about the dissolved gases in the tank, I should have turned the airstone off again today to see if they started gasping again. I am thinking that it may have something to do with the fact that I have the temperature at 30oC.

Ill get there eventually!!

Ill let you know of the results tomorrow!!

Thanks

J