Somebody in the UK really needs to start selling these things, does the German site mentioned above post to the UK? The smaller reactor is ~£25 plus P&P which is not too bad given you don't have to make it and you also get a bubble counter aswell.
Co2 Hardware
- Thread starter michaelwgroves
- Start date
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
Still keen to get the US kit, although you can only get as 110V, so need to research voltage converter......
The US stuff is so cheap compared to the UK stuff.
Apparently Milwaukee has an Italian base, and Italy is 230V, so this is an option, although they are ignoring my emails!
I'm doomed with the piping either way. I have a Fluval FX5 which has a 1" pipe. I'm also going to fit 2 * Hydor external heaters when fitting the reactor.
The heaters are also 16mm, so the German reactor would help here. Although I still have the problem of reducing 1" down.
I'm hoping I can get a 1" "Y" piece, then I can reduce one side down to 3/4" then the other side fit another "Y" piece, and then convert both of these to 1/2".
This way my flow rate would be the same as a single 1". I would then look to fit the regulator after one of the heaters.
If anyone has any good web sites that sell reducers and "Y" pieces I would be really grateful.
James, thanks for the link on the thread converter.
I have my reservations about the German reactor, looks a bit "man-in-a-shed" if this is the case how good is it really?
I've seen a few bad posts on these, but unfortunately nothing conclusive.
At least with the Aqua-Medic you know it will be good, albeit a bit expensive.
The US stuff is so cheap compared to the UK stuff.
Apparently Milwaukee has an Italian base, and Italy is 230V, so this is an option, although they are ignoring my emails!
I'm doomed with the piping either way. I have a Fluval FX5 which has a 1" pipe. I'm also going to fit 2 * Hydor external heaters when fitting the reactor.
The heaters are also 16mm, so the German reactor would help here. Although I still have the problem of reducing 1" down.
I'm hoping I can get a 1" "Y" piece, then I can reduce one side down to 3/4" then the other side fit another "Y" piece, and then convert both of these to 1/2".
This way my flow rate would be the same as a single 1". I would then look to fit the regulator after one of the heaters.
If anyone has any good web sites that sell reducers and "Y" pieces I would be really grateful.
James, thanks for the link on the thread converter.
I have my reservations about the German reactor, looks a bit "man-in-a-shed" if this is the case how good is it really?
I've seen a few bad posts on these, but unfortunately nothing conclusive.
At least with the Aqua-Medic you know it will be good, albeit a bit expensive.
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
Sorted, found a good quality 240V to 110V converter
http
/tacima.com/tacima_products.html
Just waiting on final costs..................
Final dilema is reducers and splitters for the heaters and reactor.
http
/tacima.com/tacima_products.htmlJust waiting on final costs..................
Final dilema is reducers and splitters for the heaters and reactor.
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
I finally purchased all my CO2 kit and I have started to install it.
Just to recap this is what I purchased;
I needed a 240v to 110v transformer as all my kit came from US.
Anyway, just ordered a US power strip to plug everything into, just to keep it neat and tidy.
My final problem as mentioned above is that my regulator is US thread CGA 320, but the cannisters which I got from a pub are liquid Air with a British BS341 thread. As luck would have it the supplier slipped up and sent a free CO2 canister which has the correct thread.
My dilemma is I don't think anyone can/will refill a US canister. My alternative is to get a converter, I'm sure I've seen them somewhere before but can't remember where.
JamesC
I checked your link www.weldability.com part no
DACO2NUT, but can't see how this would work, although I have now emailed them.
Does anyone know where or how I can convert the tread?
Just to recap this is what I purchased;
I needed a 240v to 110v transformer as all my kit came from US.
Anyway, just ordered a US power strip to plug everything into, just to keep it neat and tidy.
My final problem as mentioned above is that my regulator is US thread CGA 320, but the cannisters which I got from a pub are liquid Air with a British BS341 thread. As luck would have it the supplier slipped up and sent a free CO2 canister which has the correct thread.
My dilemma is I don't think anyone can/will refill a US canister. My alternative is to get a converter, I'm sure I've seen them somewhere before but can't remember where.
JamesC
I checked your link www.weldability.com part no
DACO2NUT, but can't see how this would work, although I have now emailed them.Does anyone know where or how I can convert the tread?
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
As I'm still having no luck trying to adapt my US Regulator to work on my UK cylinder I thought I would try a welding forum.
Same equipment, just a different job.
We'll lads there not a very helpful bunch, basically I was told I don't know what I am doing so I will not get any help from them...........
So basically the big burly welders puffed up thier chests because they are better than the rest of us, thanks for nothing.
Anyway, anyone here got any thoughts, I've now wired up my ph meter and I am ready to go, just got to connect my regulator to a cylinder, any cylinder blahhhhhhh........
Same equipment, just a different job.
We'll lads there not a very helpful bunch, basically I was told I don't know what I am doing so I will not get any help from them...........
So basically the big burly welders puffed up thier chests because they are better than the rest of us, thanks for nothing.
Anyway, anyone here got any thoughts, I've now wired up my ph meter and I am ready to go, just got to connect my regulator to a cylinder, any cylinder blahhhhhhh........
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
Finally got the answer I needed from a friendly welder. You need to unscrew the input stem and replace the US nut with a UK one.
Sounds simple. However, the stem is VERY tight; I needed to put a pipe on the allen key to shift it.
That done it would appear to be a simple job.
Then all I needed to do was track down a nut, again easier said then done.
In the end I managed to get a nut off a CO2 fire extinguisher. It's the nut that holds the horn on.
Only problem was the pipe on the horn is smaller on the CO2 fire extinguisher than my stem.
I recommend getting one off an old CO2 fire extinguisher as they are typically brass and slightly bigger.
I then needed to drill out the center from 15mm to 16mm to fit my stem.
And then finally put it on my cylinder, the final piece of the jigsaw........
I now think the nut in this link would work although they were not helpful when I asked for details on the nut. www.weldability.com part no DACO2NUT
I'm now slowly bringing the ph down in my tank.
I am a happy fish keeper once again.
Sounds simple. However, the stem is VERY tight; I needed to put a pipe on the allen key to shift it.
That done it would appear to be a simple job.
Then all I needed to do was track down a nut, again easier said then done.
In the end I managed to get a nut off a CO2 fire extinguisher. It's the nut that holds the horn on.
Only problem was the pipe on the horn is smaller on the CO2 fire extinguisher than my stem.
I recommend getting one off an old CO2 fire extinguisher as they are typically brass and slightly bigger.
I then needed to drill out the center from 15mm to 16mm to fit my stem.
And then finally put it on my cylinder, the final piece of the jigsaw........
I now think the nut in this link would work although they were not helpful when I asked for details on the nut. www.weldability.com part no
DACO2NUTI'm now slowly bringing the ph down in my tank.
I am a happy fish keeper once again.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Still don't know why you didn't just get a European regulator!! Would've been cheaper, easier and able to return if it breaks which you won't buy pulling it apart!!
Andy
Andy
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
I looked at sourcing a quality regulator in the UK and got the following prices
Dennerle & Aqua-Medic @ £64.99
Deltec @ £51.99
Then looked at US, The JBJ and Milwaukee looked to me to be better quality and only cost £40 including Bubble counters.
Whilst £25 is not a massive saving, and the grief to find the nut certainly was not worth £25. However, the big saving was on the PH Monitor.
Dennerle & Aquamedic both do them @ £224.00 & £149.99 respectively, but you can get the Milwaukee SMS122 for only £44.36
That's a massive £105 or £180 saving, plus £25. Now it makes sense.
I'm sure the question your thinking is yeah, but "WHY DID YOU NOT GET A UK REGULATOR"
Basically, you need to plug the regulator into the ph monitor, as the ph monitor is US the regulator needs to be US.
It was a bit painful getting this far, but hopfully if someone else wants to try it, and they find my thread it is straight forward.
Having now done it, I would strongly recommend getting your gear from the US, you can save a packet.
Dennerle & Aqua-Medic @ £64.99
Deltec @ £51.99
Then looked at US, The JBJ and Milwaukee looked to me to be better quality and only cost £40 including Bubble counters.
Whilst £25 is not a massive saving, and the grief to find the nut certainly was not worth £25. However, the big saving was on the PH Monitor.
Dennerle & Aquamedic both do them @ £224.00 & £149.99 respectively, but you can get the Milwaukee SMS122 for only £44.36
That's a massive £105 or £180 saving, plus £25. Now it makes sense.
I'm sure the question your thinking is yeah, but "WHY DID YOU NOT GET A UK REGULATOR"
Basically, you need to plug the regulator into the ph monitor, as the ph monitor is US the regulator needs to be US.
It was a bit painful getting this far, but hopfully if someone else wants to try it, and they find my thread it is straight forward.
Having now done it, I would strongly recommend getting your gear from the US, you can save a packet.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
But the whole point was that we have been telling you the Ph monitor was a waste of money and will result in algae because it will make the CO2 inconsistent. You chose to ignore this advice and got it anyway.
Quality does not mean brand names. I use a reasonably cheap welding regulator (£30) and I would bet from the complaints I hear about Dennerle regulators that mine is better quality.
Bubble counter, NRV and diffusors are more often than not better bought seperate. There aren't any coplete kits that have all the decent stuff.
Anyway your tank your choice but my money is on you being back on here asking 'Why have I got algae when I have good CO2' and we will have to answer 'Please read this post'
Not being nasty there but we did all tell you!
Andy
Quality does not mean brand names. I use a reasonably cheap welding regulator (£30) and I would bet from the complaints I hear about Dennerle regulators that mine is better quality.
Bubble counter, NRV and diffusors are more often than not better bought seperate. There aren't any coplete kits that have all the decent stuff.
Anyway your tank your choice but my money is on you being back on here asking 'Why have I got algae when I have good CO2' and we will have to answer 'Please read this post'
Not being nasty there but we did all tell you!
Andy
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
I'm in IT so any technology, I've just got to have it.........
I would have thought by being able to keep Ph at a constant, say 7, that would also keep the Co2 constant. I'm obviously missing something here.
Please can you explain?
No algae as yet, but it is early days. However, I do get a lot of bubbles coming off damaged leaves on several plants. This is mainly in the evening.
I have not really noticed this during the day when the lights are off.
What could this be?
I would have thought by being able to keep Ph at a constant, say 7, that would also keep the Co2 constant. I'm obviously missing something here.
Please can you explain?
No algae as yet, but it is early days. However, I do get a lot of bubbles coming off damaged leaves on several plants. This is mainly in the evening.
I have not really noticed this during the day when the lights are off.
What could this be?
SuperColey1
Planted Section
If your natural water PH was for example 8 you therefore set the ph monitor at 7 to assume 1phdrop = 30ppm.
The problem with the ph monitor is that it assumes the above is correct and therefore turns the CO2 off at 7 and on at 7.1 (or whatever increment it works at)
This on and off is a recipe for disaster in the main because it firstly assumes that your starting ph is always the same (it should be but not necessarily) then there is the start stop which means the CO2 is rising and falling all day long (only a small amount but still) then there is the problem of calibration as these monitors are known to go off (differing reports for different makes from different people etc) which means if the monitor is reading 7 but the actual is different then it will most likely turn off even more.
Most top planted experts state clearly that ph monitors and heated cables are a waste of money (both of which are part of the Dennerle system) and most of us don't buy premade setups unless we bought them years ago when we knew no better.
Almost every planted person these days is using welding regulators with good rep needle valves and solenoids. Then we use welding or Fire extinguisher CO2 (CO2 = CO2) and then we have all over the last few years between us (I mean all the CO2 users of all the forums) used virtually every cheapo diffusor/reactor wether DIY or ADA and virtually always the result is that ADA is the best ceramic but the Rhinox for its 1/10th of the price is much better value. External reactors are some people's choice etc.
You asked the question and 3 or 4 people in this thread said the Ph monitor was a waste of money.
As for me I use disposable 600g welding cannisters with a welding regulator, a german solenoid and needle valve from Aquarianversand and cheap glassbubble counter, NRV and diffusor.
I am currently trialling a Nano (1.5cm disc) diffusor in my 33USG and it is working superbly so far. I will keep trialling it but so far so good (£4 inc hipping for 2 of these from Hong Kong!!!) I do have a Rhinox in my cupboard which was being used before this went in and it works well too.
The aim of this hobby can be spend as much as you want if you have it. If so why not buy ADA? The rest of us would rather get just as good or better stuff for a cheaper price and buy more tanks, fish and plants etc.
Choice is of the user. Let us know how you get on with the Ph monitor and how long it takes to go off. I am no scientist so I couldn't tell you the exact dynamics of why they aren't appropriate for planted CO2 use. I do read a lot of the more reputable aquascapers comments on them though and they always come out as 'pphhh...save your money for something worthwhile'
Andy
The problem with the ph monitor is that it assumes the above is correct and therefore turns the CO2 off at 7 and on at 7.1 (or whatever increment it works at)
This on and off is a recipe for disaster in the main because it firstly assumes that your starting ph is always the same (it should be but not necessarily) then there is the start stop which means the CO2 is rising and falling all day long (only a small amount but still) then there is the problem of calibration as these monitors are known to go off (differing reports for different makes from different people etc) which means if the monitor is reading 7 but the actual is different then it will most likely turn off even more.
Most top planted experts state clearly that ph monitors and heated cables are a waste of money (both of which are part of the Dennerle system) and most of us don't buy premade setups unless we bought them years ago when we knew no better.
Almost every planted person these days is using welding regulators with good rep needle valves and solenoids. Then we use welding or Fire extinguisher CO2 (CO2 = CO2) and then we have all over the last few years between us (I mean all the CO2 users of all the forums) used virtually every cheapo diffusor/reactor wether DIY or ADA and virtually always the result is that ADA is the best ceramic but the Rhinox for its 1/10th of the price is much better value. External reactors are some people's choice etc.
You asked the question and 3 or 4 people in this thread said the Ph monitor was a waste of money.
As for me I use disposable 600g welding cannisters with a welding regulator, a german solenoid and needle valve from Aquarianversand and cheap glassbubble counter, NRV and diffusor.
I am currently trialling a Nano (1.5cm disc) diffusor in my 33USG and it is working superbly so far. I will keep trialling it but so far so good (£4 inc hipping for 2 of these from Hong Kong!!!) I do have a Rhinox in my cupboard which was being used before this went in and it works well too.
The aim of this hobby can be spend as much as you want if you have it. If so why not buy ADA? The rest of us would rather get just as good or better stuff for a cheaper price and buy more tanks, fish and plants etc.
Choice is of the user. Let us know how you get on with the Ph monitor and how long it takes to go off. I am no scientist so I couldn't tell you the exact dynamics of why they aren't appropriate for planted CO2 use. I do read a lot of the more reputable aquascapers comments on them though and they always come out as 'pphhh...save your money for something worthwhile'
Andy
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
Andy
Thanks for your comments, I am still learning, so I do appreciate your comments.
I do ask a lot of questions about anything where I don't know the answer, although sometimes I can think I know best once I've read a few articles, I get carried away with technology, although I like to use it to save me time.
My starting ph was 8 but I don't understand "you therefore set the ph monitor at 7 to assume 1phdrop = 30ppm"
Are you saying I'm injecting 30ppm co2, if so is this a lot?
I'm guessing aiming for ph7 is good, but should I be aiming for a higher/lower reading?
Anyway a couple more questions; What's an ADA and what do you mean by "how long it takes to go off"
Finally, any idea's on the bubbles coming off the leaves, is this refered to as pearling?
Thanks for your comments, I am still learning, so I do appreciate your comments.
I do ask a lot of questions about anything where I don't know the answer, although sometimes I can think I know best once I've read a few articles, I get carried away with technology, although I like to use it to save me time.
My starting ph was 8 but I don't understand "you therefore set the ph monitor at 7 to assume 1phdrop = 30ppm"
Are you saying I'm injecting 30ppm co2, if so is this a lot?
I'm guessing aiming for ph7 is good, but should I be aiming for a higher/lower reading?
Anyway a couple more questions; What's an ADA and what do you mean by "how long it takes to go off"
Finally, any idea's on the bubbles coming off the leaves, is this refered to as pearling?
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Anyway I have a copule of questions; What's an ADA and what do you mean by "how long it takes to go off"
Finally, any idea's on the bubbles?
[/quote]
ADA = Aqua Design Amano. This of course is the brand name of Takashi Amano's products and the glass/ceramic diffusor is said to be the best out BUT it is circa £75 whereas a Rhinox is circa £10. The one I am using at the moment was £4 for 2!! It is neither ADA or rhinox but a cheap far east jobbie but it is working very very well at the moment.
By going off I mean that these probes and others need to be calibrated before use and over time they 'go off' in that they need to be recalibrated otherwise the result they give is wrong.
Think about it as a car speedo that gets less acurate over time. You would after a while either be going at 20 thinking you were doing 30 or you would be pulled over non stop for speeding.
Different qualities of ph probes as with any product so some last longer than others before needing to be recalibrated.
The bubbles coming from damaged leaves is normal. If a plant is healthy, during photosynthesis it takes in CO2, consumes the C and stores the O. Once it has stored as much O as it can it has to let the excess go which is why you get pearling. The plant is producing more O than it needs.
If a plant is damaged the O leeks so that they always look like they are pearling. I would remove damaged leaves as soon as they get damaged as they will also leech ammonia as they start to deteriate further and this will cause localised algae outbreaks.
Andy
Finally, any idea's on the bubbles?
[/quote]
ADA = Aqua Design Amano. This of course is the brand name of Takashi Amano's products and the glass/ceramic diffusor is said to be the best out BUT it is circa £75 whereas a Rhinox is circa £10. The one I am using at the moment was £4 for 2!! It is neither ADA or rhinox but a cheap far east jobbie but it is working very very well at the moment.
By going off I mean that these probes and others need to be calibrated before use and over time they 'go off' in that they need to be recalibrated otherwise the result they give is wrong.
Think about it as a car speedo that gets less acurate over time. You would after a while either be going at 20 thinking you were doing 30 or you would be pulled over non stop for speeding.
Different qualities of ph probes as with any product so some last longer than others before needing to be recalibrated.
The bubbles coming from damaged leaves is normal. If a plant is healthy, during photosynthesis it takes in CO2, consumes the C and stores the O. Once it has stored as much O as it can it has to let the excess go which is why you get pearling. The plant is producing more O than it needs.
If a plant is damaged the O leeks so that they always look like they are pearling. I would remove damaged leaves as soon as they get damaged as they will also leech ammonia as they start to deteriate further and this will cause localised algae outbreaks.
Andy
OP
OP
michaelwgroves
Fish Crazy
Thanks for the information, any pointers on the ppm question?
New question; Now I have co2 injection, do I still need to add Nutrafin Plant Grow?
New question; Now I have co2 injection, do I still need to add Nutrafin Plant Grow?
SuperColey1
Planted Section
30ppm is what most people aim for. It is in the upper reaches of what is safe but gives a little leeway so that if it does go slightly above you are still OK.
You can go for a lower level BUT must ensure consistency so if you go for say 20ppm then it needs to remain at that level. No idea what ph incrememnt this would be but I would sugges using 2 parts 4dKH and 1 part DI water which would dilyte the 4dKH down to 2.667dKH and this would therefore turn green when it was 20ppm instead. This dilution will work for any ppm you want as long as the maths is correct.
Is Nutrafin Plant Gro a normal fertiliser? If so then you definately still need to add it as it isn't a carbon source. It is the actual plant food (NPK)
Andy
You can go for a lower level BUT must ensure consistency so if you go for say 20ppm then it needs to remain at that level. No idea what ph incrememnt this would be but I would sugges using 2 parts 4dKH and 1 part DI water which would dilyte the 4dKH down to 2.667dKH and this would therefore turn green when it was 20ppm instead. This dilution will work for any ppm you want as long as the maths is correct.
Is Nutrafin Plant Gro a normal fertiliser? If so then you definately still need to add it as it isn't a carbon source. It is the actual plant food (NPK)
Andy
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