Co2...... For Free?

[Underwurlde]

Over the last 6 months or so injection of CO2 into a planted tank has evolved to something like this I believe:

For stability, best use pressurized CO2.
Connect that to a regulator and a bubble counter.
Use an atomizer style diffusor such as the Rhinox.
Place diffusor in an area of the tank with good water movement - i.e. near filter intake. Distribute that mist of CO2 all over the tank!
Leave CO2 on all the time for ultra-stability (but costs more $$$).
This leads to potential O2 problems, hence encourage good surface movement - put a lilly tube from outlet of filter 1/2 in & 1/2 out of the water.

Now this all makes good sense, but I note that things have come away from the traditional thinking that you should aim for minimal surface disturbance as this 'drives off CO2' - who cares now with such a fine mist of CO2 going everywhere....

So this got me thinking (be warned, I am no chemist so I lack the foresight of knowledge here):
The atmosphere contains something like 300ppm to 600ppm of CO2? - in other words the 'ariel advantage' automatically afforded to all non-aquatic plants. This is a free source of CO2, so my thinking is to replace the pressurized CO2 cannister with a simple air-pump (as those used by airstones) - simply pump naturally occuring atmospheric CO2 & O2 into the tank via a Rhinox atomizer diffuser (no change to the rest of the setup mentioned above).

All I am stuck on really is, is this a viable idea, would the naturally occuring CO2 in the atmosphere, if pumped into the tank in this manner, really increase the CO2 ppm in the tank water by any signficant amount do you think? We all know Excel is no replacement for direct CO2 injection, so even if this idea makes the use of Excel redundant, there may be some mileage in my lateral thinking....

Andy

 

[smithrc]

think of it like this.... presurised CO2 is just that CO2... 1000000ppm... you would have a hard time injecting enough air to get enough co2 into the water...

having said that.... I'd give it a go

 

[DevUK]

I think that the surfact movement would drive off what little CO2 you managed to get into the water via an air pump. Now, if you had some sort of equipment that could seperate the CO2 from the air before pumping it in... Again, might be too little to make a difference.

I'm not talking from a scientific background either

 

[nry]

I did think a similar thing ages back when I found out the atmospheric CO2 levels - the only way to try the theory out is to try it, so when you have a green drop checker from pumping 'air' through the diffuser then we'll all jump for joy and the CO2 equipment companies won't be happy bunnies

 

[SuperColey1]

I think Tom Barr answered something similar to this a while ago but as usual I can't remember which forum it was on. lol

I'm sure someone would've tried this though before they went down the pure CO2 route.

Good luck though.

Andy

 

[JamesC]

Only about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide so you are not going to dissolve much by bubbling it through a diffuser. This is why we use 100% CO2.

James

 

[Underwurlde]

^ I was trying to think away from that. To balance my thinking out, *only* 0.03% atmosphere is plenty enough for land-based plants, so although the number looks small (to a human), it is by far & away enough - it is what plants have evolved to use. This is why I was thinking in terms of ppm. 300-600ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, *only* 25-30ppm required for mega-EI growth, 'naturally' occuring CO2 3ppm. If this technique were to raise it to only 10ppm, we are talking Flourish Excel dosing levels? That would be great for so-called 'hybrid' tanks.

I am not by any means thinking in terms of this replacing pressurized CO2: I am wanting some feedback really on what everyone thought of as to the levels one could expect to achieve. To me, atomizing atomospheric gas into the tank can be thought of as hugely increasing the surface area of the water that has access to this 0.03% CO2....

I would give this a try myself, but I use an internal filter - the set-up I would like to try it on is as described - an external filter with an inlet & outlet pipe (to better distribute the 'air' around the tank).

Andy

 

[divisible by zero]

the satureation rates would be way toooo low

 

[Underwurlde]

^ Please explain that for the hard of thinking among us (moi): What do you mean by that?

Andy

 

[nry]

At a guess - the CO2 in the atmosphere is at such a low percentage (in respect to how much CO2 in comparison to other gasses) that you'd need to pump massive amounts of atmosphere through your tank to get anywhere close to 30ppm.

 

[Underwurlde]

Note: I am NOT suggesting that this technique would be considered for raising CO2 levels in the tank to as high as 30ppm (that used for EI), that easily reached with a pressurized system. I am thinking about using this for those 'hybrid' tanks, the ones which don't use CO2 injection but rely on Excel instead. I was thinking that if it could possibly up the naturally occuring levels from 3ppm to say 6ppm to 8ppm then that would be great - goodbye the expense of using Excel.

I am not a chemist - I'm not into all this gas theory / equilibrium science, but what I think I may have missed (the obvious to most of you who do understand these theories) is that the natural levels of CO2 in the water (say 3ppm) is in balance with that of the atmosphere (at say 300ppm): So therefore pumping 'air' into the tank as I propose will make sod all difference to this balance, it will just speed up the equilibrium process (but will always match lets say a 100:1 ratio).

I have no idea if that is sound thinking, hence the thread.

Andy

 

[DevUK]

Best thing to do is try it!

I'd guess you'd need to pump the air through a glass diffuser to get a mist of bubbles as apose to just your standard "air curtain" diffusers.

 

[Underwurlde]

I'd guess you'd need to pump the air through a glass diffuser to get a mist of bubbles as apose to just your standard "air curtain" diffusers.

Yes indeed, that is what I mentioned to do in the OP: To use an air pump and atoming diffusor (such as the Rhinox), placing the mist under the intake pipe for the external filter - just like you'd do for normal CO2. (Unfortunately I use a standard internal filter as part of my Juwel Tank).

Andy

 

[DevUK]

I'd guess you'd need to pump the air through a glass diffuser to get a mist of bubbles as apose to just your standard "air curtain" diffusers.

Yes indeed, that is what I mentioned to do in the OP: To use an air pump and atoming diffusor (such as the Rhinox), placing the mist under the intake pipe for the external filter - just like you'd do for normal CO2. (Unfortunately I use a standard internal filter as part of my Juwel Tank).

Andy

Might be able to rig it into the outlet powerhead of the juwel filter. I think theres guides about doing this with powerheads kicking about...

 

[Colonel Mustard]

right then time to get down and give it a go!!!