Co2 And Air Pump

[Neo8223]

Hi All
 
(skip to next paragraph for question)
Last year I had an absolutely amazing looking tank. All was alive and happy, i was doing EI to the letter with 50% water change, I would dose CO2 during the day, then swap to O2 at night. I had sooo many happy plants and the world was very merry, Roberto Di Matteo was mananaging chelsea, relationship going well yada yada yada, you get the picture.  One day however, it seemed that my oxygen totally ran out and i lost all but 5 fish! Surprisingly, only the loaches survived! I now keep the air pump running 24/7, since this incident. A week later, the CO2 ran out, and I have since then neglected the plants, i stopped doing EI, and started doing monthly water changes instead.
 
My question is, does leaving the air pump on 24/7 reduce the effect of the CO2 being pumped around the system? I have a CO2 drop check and it just doesnt seem to want to go green! I couldnt tell you if the plants are doing well as i've just put them in.
 
Unfortunately, the ceramic plate that I have clogged up and I discovered that its impossible to make silicone piping soft again if i cant take it out of the water, so after I cleaned it, I couldnt re-attach, Now I'm just using a ladder which I know isnt as efficient, however, it's still doing a reasonable job of it! 
 
I have a 70-ish gallon tank, with 1wpg. I'm soon going to move to LED lighting which i've just made (DIY)
 
my water from the tap is as below:
 
Hardness and Fluoride Information

.CALCIUM 120 mg/l
TOTAL HARDNESS 300 mg/l - its ridiculously hard water - I have access to a water softner if anyone recomends using that water instead.
Degrees English (or Clarke) 21
MILLIMOLS 3 mmol/l
FLUORIDE 0.149 mg/l

 

[techen]

By the plant law, You should not run a air pump with a planted tank. It removes a lot of the CO2s effect and so making it useless. 
 
I just bought a 60l tank with a 50watt twin T5 HO light above it. I have around 3.125wpg
 

 

[Neo8223]

What about at night when you no longer need the levels to be high? - or would that cause algae blooms if the co2 concentration drastically decreases?
 
I have my spray bar pointing 90 degrees so it agitates the surface of the water as much as possible.
 
As my water is quite hard, could that be why the drop checker isn't doing much. From my basic knowledge of GCSE science ,CO2 makes the water acidic. These drop checkers measure the pH of water. maybe its not changing because my water is hard water, indicating that its alkaline?

 

[DrRob]

If you're using the right liquid in the drop checker (the 4kdH stuff) then your water hardness doesn't matter, which is the point.
 
There's a general view that gas exchange is more dependent on changing the water in contact with the surface than with actually pumping air anywhere. There's a lot of debate on the subject as well, as the air pumps do move a water column from the bottom of the tank to the top. This can be replicated by increasing surface agitation and you end up with a balance between keeping the O2 up and not driving off all of your lovely CO2.
 
As for water chemistry, plants generally quite like harder water. Some plants simply won't grow in soft water conditions (vallis is my main culprit for this). I always say that you shouldn't mess with your water unless you intend to keep doing it and only for a good reason, it's a pain to have to keep doing it. I speak from experience, my tap water is badly affected by farm run off and is barely within legal for many things, including being liquid rock so I do treat my incoming water. House plants grow well though.

 

[techen]

Why not just have good surface movement with your filter? Thats what makes the best oxygen exchange.
 
The way it looks like, you overdosed liquid CO2 and killed your fish, So you need to be more careful really.
 
What colour is the drop checker?

 

[DrRob]

Are we dealing with liquid CO2? I had assumed that we were talking gas given the tank size.
 
If that's the case then it won't move a drop checker at all, totally different chemistry.

 

[Neo8223]

sorry for the delay, my phone was almost dead so couldnt take pics. I am indeed using CO2. I have a nice big 5kg one to keep me going. I also showed the bubble flow. This will obviously change when I get the new diffuser.
 

 

 

 

 

[SLIM]

Ok
1. In a co2 injected tank, you only want a little surface agitation whilst the lights are on and co2 is running
2. If you must use an air stone set it so it comes on after lights out, this will not cause algae
3. Make sure your co2 comes on 2hrs before lights on and off 2 hrs before lights off. Do not have an airstone running whist your co2 is on or you will gas off all your co2
4. Get rid of that ladder diffuser. They are awful at diffusion and waste co2. Get yourself an inline atomizer if you have an external. OR a in tank atomizer if not.

Hope this helps
Am really not a fan of ladders lol can you tell lol

 

[Neo8223]

Hi Slim. Thanks for the reply. I learned looots of new things
 
Lol neither am I! I kind of got caught in a sticky situation. I had not used my ceramic diffuser in so long and i thought it got clogged up. So I removed it only to find that the tubing was extremely tough and I couldnt remove it to heat it up. I therefore had to get out an old ladder and perform a balancing act on it whilst I waited for some more tubing and a new ceramic to arrive. What do you think of this? Its what I am waiting for.
 
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221141583153?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
I just saw a video on youtube. Would you recommend I got rid of my spray bar, or have it pointing 45 degrees down for less surface agitation? 
 
What would be better? The ceramic one or this:
 
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UP-aqua-Inline-CO2-Atomizer-12-16mm-aquarium-Atomic-Diffuser-Reactor-/130812744574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e750c137e
 
I do indeed have an external filter.
 
I currently do that timing with the CO2 and used to do it with the oxygen too. I'll get it to turn on after the lights have gone out for 1 hour on/1 hour off intervals until the plants pick up.
 
cheers!
 

Ok
1. In a co2 injected tank, you only want a little surface agitation whilst the lights are on and co2 is running
2. If you must use an air stone set it so it comes on after lights out, this will not cause algae
3. Make sure your co2 comes on 2hrs before lights on and off 2 hrs before lights off. Do not have an airstone running whist your co2 is on or you will gas off all your co2
4. Get rid of that ladder diffuser. They are awful at diffusion and waste co2. Get yourself an inline atomizer if you have an external. OR a in tank atomizer if not.

Hope this helps
Am really not a fan of ladders lol can you tell lol

 

[Royston]

Ok
1. In a co2 injected tank, you only want a little surface agitation whilst the lights are on and co2 is running
2. If you must use an air stone set it so it comes on after lights out, this will not cause algae
3. Make sure your co2 comes on 2hrs before lights on and off 2 hrs before lights off. Do not have an airstone running whist your co2 is on or you will gas off all your co2
4. Get rid of that ladder diffuser. They are awful at diffusion and waste co2. Get yourself an inline atomizer if you have an external. OR a in tank atomizer if not.
Hope this helpsAm really not a fan of ladders lol can you tell lol

I have four air stones running 24 / 7 in my sump to knock about my k1 , would this make a difference to my co2

 

[SLIM]

Hi Slim. Thanks for the reply. I learned looots of new things  Lol neither am I! I kind of got caught in a sticky situation. I had not used my ceramic diffuser in so long and i thought it got clogged up. So I removed it only to find that the tubing was extremely tough and I couldnt remove it to heat it up. I therefore had to get out an old ladder and perform a balancing act on it whilst I waited for some more tubing and a new ceramic to arrive. What do you think of this? Its what I am waiting for. http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221141583153?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 I just saw a video on youtube. Would you recommend I got rid of my spray bar, or have it pointing 45 degrees down for less surface agitation?  What would be better? The ceramic one or this: http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UP-aqua-Inline-CO2-Atomizer-12-16mm-aquarium-Atomic-Diffuser-Reactor-/130812744574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e750c137e I do indeed have an external filter. I currently do that timing with the CO2 and used to do it with the oxygen too. I'll get it to turn on after the lights have gone out for 1 hour on/1 hour off intervals until the plants pick up. cheers! 

Ok1. In a co2 injected tank, you only want a little surface agitation whilst the lights are on and co2 is running2. If you must use an air stone set it so it comes on after lights out, this will not cause algae3. Make sure your co2 comes on 2hrs before lights on and off 2 hrs before lights off. Do not have an airstone running whist your co2 is on or you will gas off all your co24. Get rid of that ladder diffuser. They are awful at diffusion and waste co2. Get yourself an inline atomizer if you have an external. OR a in tank atomizer if not.Hope this helpsAm really not a fan of ladders lol can you tell lol

Hi again
Its upto you which way you have your spraybar facing but i would personally remove it or face it down for better flow. As far as surface agitation goes, you just want slight rippling which is more than enough for o2 exchange. Anymore than this and all your doing is gassing off your co2.

Which youtube vid did you see

As for that ceramic diffuser in your link, iv owned one.... there ok, no better than any other ceramic. They are a nightmare to fill with water.
Up inline atomizers are far some superior and achieve much better diffusion and distribution.
If it was me I would use an inline over a ceramic anyday hands down

Ok1. In a co2 injected tank, you only want a little surface agitation whilst the lights are on and co2 is running2. If you must use an air stone set it so it comes on after lights out, this will not cause algae3. Make sure your co2 comes on 2hrs before lights on and off 2 hrs before lights off. Do not have an airstone running whist your co2 is on or you will gas off all your co24. Get rid of that ladder diffuser. They are awful at diffusion and waste co2. Get yourself an inline atomizer if you have an external. OR a in tank atomizer if not.Hope this helpsAm really not a fan of ladders lol can you tell lol

I have four air stones running 24 / 7 in my sump to knock about my k1 , would this make a difference to my co2

it wont "make a difference" or effect your co2 or plant growth, your just be using alot more co2 than you would if you wasnt running 4 air stones

 

[Neo8223]

Hi SLIM
 
I watched this one, no commetry about the angle, but just by visual observation.
 
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVxinVoLBjg
 
I'll move the angle to face exactly down and also add 1 hole per 15cm facing across so it still agitates the surface but not enough to effect all the CO2. (I hope)

 

[SLIM]

Sounds good