Cloudy Water

[Akasha72]

how have you cycled it?

 

[Byron]

We may be talking two different things here, with the numbers.  First, the GH...at 180 ppm that is about 10 dGH which is moderately hard water.  The standard cories like the albino, pepper, green, etc. will be fine in this (wild caught would be a different issue).  As for the mollies, this is at the lower end of their range for GH so it should be OK.  The pH could be higher, so keep an eye on it; in the event it lowers below 7, it would be best for the sake of the mollies to add some crushed coral sand/fine gravel to the filter; we can discuss that later if the need should arise.  Your KH is substantial enough that it might prevent this, if you are regular (every week) with a 50% water change.  The four mollies plus the other fish will fill this tank (120 litre).
 
The other issue with numbers I think is cycling...I believe this is a new tank only set up a couple days ago.  From the previous posts I am not understanding if it was cycled somehow.  Perhaps you could explain just how you have set this new tank up so we are all clear.
 
Byron.
 
Edit: As I was typing, Akasha posted, and picked up on the cycling too.

 

[Akasha72]

thanks Byron I was hoping you'd come along and look over those numbers. I'm still learning about pH, kH and gH so I'm reassured I'm getting the hang of it slowly

 

[the_lock_man]

Ok, so I tested my water in the new large tank.

GH 180
KH 180
pH 7.0
NO2 0
NO3 20

What should it be to safely but my. Fish in?

 
What you haven't given us is an ammonia reading, which makes me suspect that you have got the paper test strips. These are OK as a general guide for when your tank is fully cycled, but in a fish-in cycling situation (which I reckon you are), they aren't really accurate enough.
 
What you are looking for is a consistent NH3 = 0, NO2 = 0 for a week where there is an ammonia source in the water (whether it be fish themselves, or bottled ammonia).
 
Can we go back to real basics for a sec - I know others have asked you how you cycled the tank - but do you know what the nitrogen cycle is?

 

[GuppieMike]

I'm ready to cry now. The way I've been told to cycle tank and how I did the small one was by the advice of the guy from P@H, which is to fill the tank out tap safe in and leave it for five days. However this time I've been doing water changes and adding tap safe when do so.

They are the test strips I didn't notice a one which included them all and ammonia.

I had my water tested this morning and the ammonia level is to high and to do another water change.

Now I found out this morning that my black molly had died and that one of my molly and one of my guppies eyes have clouded over and another molly eye looks like its popped out, not out completely just out further.

I'm never going back to pets at home ever again. The guy from the start has basically ruined my fish.

 

[the_lock_man]

First off, Mike, don't cry. You aren't the first person to have this happen, and you won't be the last. The good news is that you are in the right place.
 
Second off, let's tell you what the nitrogen cycle is.
 
Fish produce ammonia, as part of their respiration, and in other bodily waste. In the wild, this ammonia would just be washed away down stream, but obviously in an enclosed aquarium, that doesn't happen. It poisons the fish.
 
So, the aquarium grows a biological filter of bacteria, not just in the mechanical filter, but on other surfaces too. Plants also help remove ammonia. The bacteria feed on ammonia, and produce nitrite. This is also poisonous, so there's another bunch of bacteria that eat the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. We remove most of the nitrate in our regular water changes, although plants also help with this too. This is the nitrogen cycle.
 
By "cycling", we mean growing those two colonies of bacteria, such that the test results will return 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite, consistently.
 
The bacteria won't grow without a food source (ie ammonia) so just running the tank empty for a few days basically does nothing. There is no food, therefore there is no bacteria.
 
Now that you have fish in the tank, there is a food source, so the bacterial colonies are growing - slowly. In the meantime, you need to keep changing the water manually, to keep the ammonia levels safe. The trick is to change as little as possible water to give the bacteria enough food to grow, but without harming the fish.
 
TwoTankAmin has written an excellent pair of articles which explain in a bit more detail the science behind it, and a detailed guide of exactly how to work out how much water to change, and how often. Obviously, as the bacterial colonies grow, they process more of the ammonia, so you need to do less work. You can find these pinned at the top of this section of the forum.
 
In order to do so, you need a reasonably accurate test kit, and as I said previously, I don't believe that paper strips cut the mustard. I strongly recommend getting a liquid test kit, P@H sell them, as do Maidenhead Aquatics, as do every independent LFS, as do Amazon and Ebay. Many people use the API kit (I don't but that's another story!), it is perfectly accurate enough for your situation.
 
The eye issues are symptomatic of poor water quality, and it does seem as though ammonia is your problem, so you need to get something to test ammonia soon, so you can start a proper water change regime to help your remaining fish.
 
Ask any questions you want, the chances are that you won't be the first to ask them, and that you won't be the last. The only silly question is the one you don't ask. 

 

[GuppieMike]

Thanks for the response. So what should I be adding to the water? To feed the bacteria.

Which one is it from pets at home. I haven't seen one that has ammonia including only a seperate one for that.

 

[the_lock_man]

The small tank has fish in it, so that's the ammonia source.
 
If you don't yet have fish in the larger tank, then there's another thread at the top, about fishless cycling, which uses bottled ammonia, which you can get at Homebase.
 
With regard to the test kit, the one most people use is called the API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
 

 
P@H have it at £35, but you can get it from Amazon or Ebay for £20.

 

[GuppieMike]

Thanks, I'm getting a little confused, am I able to put some water from the small tank (which has no fish in, but still has the water) into the large one? Or do I need to get bottled?

I will look into getting the kit asap.

 

[the_lock_man]

Right, OK, so the small tank no longer has fish in it, sorry, I obviously got confused.
 
There's no point putting the water from the small tank in there, any bacteria that formed would be on hard surfaces, not in the water.
 
Since there are fish in the big tank, don't put bottled ammonia in at all. Follow the instructions in the "How TO Rescue A Fish-In Cycle Gone Wild" threads.

 

[GuppieMike]

I have no fish in the my large tank either. They're in a friends established tank for the time being, as I needed the fish out the small tank asap.

 

[Akasha72]

Don't cry ... but whenever I hear pet@home and fish in the same sentence I always feel an inward grown cos I know what's coming. The staff at p@h are just sales people ... look at this way - if you want to buy a new car you go to the showroom and the sales guy shows you around the cars but would you ask him to fix something mechanical? No, you'd use a different guy for that .... we're those 'different guys' here. Call us the fish mechanics lol
 
 
Okay so I'm also confused now. Which tank contains your fish? Your small tank or the new 125 litre? How many fish are in it? 
 
the_lock_man has given you some good advice already and I'm just here as back up - for want of a better word.
 
You need to go here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ and have a read of that and then ask questions here is you don't understand anything.
 
I'm gonna leave there cos your in good hands with the_lock_man, plus I don't like overwhelming newbies with too much info at once ... 
 
 
EDIT
Mr lock_man .... I'm seeing 'established tank' here ... is there a sticky for seeding from established media on the site? (ignore me Mike, don't want to confuse you further)

 

[GuppieMike]

My fish are in a friends tank with her tetra's. I just needed to get them out the small tank, though it seems the damage has already been done.

I'm getting a little confused again, would it be ok to put my fish in my 125ltr tank and work on the ammonia levels or keep them in my friends tank for now.

I'll go and read that article now.

 

[fluttermoth]

If you put the fish in the big tank now, you'll be doing another fish-in cycle, and you'll have similar problems to the ones you had in the small tank.
 
It would be best to do a proper fishless cycle in the big tank first. If your friend could give you a bit of stuff from her filter (it only need to be a quarter or so; this won't affect her tank, as long as it's replaced, as the bacteria can soon repopulate), that would 'seed' your filter, with a small bacterial colony, and your cycle should go a lot faster.

 

[Akasha72]

okay .... if you have a friend with an established tank there is possibly and option we've not thought of and that is what we call 'seeding' This mean getting some filter gunk from your friend and smearing it onto your filter sponges. The gunk will be teeming with bacteria and all your effectively doing is moving some bacteria from her tank to your tank. It's then possible that you can re-introduce your fish little bit by little bit without getting an ammonia spike. This has to be approached with caution and I'm not going to suggest you do this until you get that test kit. Doing it this way will mean testing the water, everyday, possibly twice a day to make sure that the bacteria you've added is enough to cope with fish

we posted at the same time there fluttermoth!