Cichlids

[VickiandKev]

I have been hearing about cichlids everywhere and indeed saw some gorgeous green ones at a friend's a while ago which were something special, but I have never kept cichlids (not even an Angel Fish) before and don't know much about them at all.

I've heard that severums are fast-growing, grow up to a foot in length and peaceful. All of these things I like a lot!

So, I have some questions - I'm seriously considering having a pair of severums or similar peaceful large cichlids for my living room tank.

The current stocking is as follows:
18 clown loaches
5 gouramies (3 spot, opaline, gold)
3(soon to be a lot more) congo tetra
1 rainbow shark
1 flying fox
1 synodontis eupterus

The tank is about 500L currently, 6' x 18" x 2' (l x w x h), but will be upgraded to an 8' x 2' x 1' very shortly.

Questions - would cichlids work in this tank?
If so, which would be best?
I would quite like to have some big fish. My biggest fish are my 8 inch blue phantom plecos and my 7 inch clown loaches (all of which I don't see all the time!)

Also, what is the minimum height of a tank for a fully grown of whatever cichlid you are going to recommend for me?

I'm liking geophagus sp. and severums and also uara right now but sure it'll build up as I go searching for info

I could possibly make the upgrade 15 or 18' high if needed, but really don't want to go to 2ft in height as I just cannot reach the bottom and all of the height is dead space with my current stocking really.

So, fire away

 

[minxfishy]

Severums would be perfect for that set up (IMO but Im biased as they are my favourite fish). Whilst its true that the commonly sold Heros Efasciatus (Severum) can reach 12, the smaller variety Hero Severus and Rotkeils usually max out around 8". They arent particularly fast growing cichlids, roughly 1/2" monthly with good diet and water changes, until they reach around 6", they then slow down til they reach their full size.

The only problem some people find with keeping severums is if they like lush planted tanks, because Severums will eat the plants and those they dont eat, they like to play with Otherwise, they are generally fairly placid fish, you can always get the odd exception to this, who maybe slightly aggressive with his own kind, but not normally towards other fish. Also, obviously, they can be prone to eating smaller fish, like neons, although Ive never kept one that does, particulary if they grow up with them, its just adding smaller fish later on they can find them a quick snack.

You mention Geophagus species, these too are relatively placid cichlids, depending on which species you get, some like the geophagus brasiliensis can be more aggressive, whereas the surinamensis, megasema and other species are not too bad, they can be boisterous amongst themselves but not towards other fish (as mentioned, there are always exceptions with individual fish). Geophagus species and the Satanoperca Species (like geophagus) do need sand substrate, as they are eartheaters and sift thought the substrate to find fine particles of food to eat, so gravel is no good for them and can cause death if they get it caught in their gills whilst sifting. They also require good water quality, particularly the satanoperca species as they can be prone to neo-tropical bloat if the quality drops at all. Both geophagus and Satanoperca species need to be in groups to be happy, 4 minimum IME, apart from the brasiliensis who as mentioned can be aggressive, so are ok to be the lone species in a tank.

 

[Davo86]

With your current stocking, I would also be inclined to go for a Severum, probably just a single specimen though, and then maybe go with a couple of Big Angels ?

Like Geos, Uaru are another large cichlid that really should be kept in a group, so I'd be looking at keeping 2-3minimum which i guess is doable if your definitely planning the upgrade.

Other options could be Festivum; a sort of cross between Severums and Angels in terms of size and temperament, and unlike most of cichlids these guys tend to spend a lot of their time in the upper levels

Also you could go for a Blue Acara variant or maybe a nice chocolate cichlid?,

 

[VickiandKev]

Thank you for your replies. I have been sifting through the info on New World cichlids and really adored the geophagus surinamensis and geophagus altifrons. I do have sand substrate for my clown loaches so the substrate shouldn't be a problem whichever fish I go for.

I am a little bit put off (but not entirely) by the fact that severums eat all the plants lol - luckily I did a good job of not looking after most of my plants so all I really have left are some anubias, java fern and cambomba as well as a big amazon sword plant. Do they touch the java fern and anubias? I know most fish leave those well alone even if they do demolish everything else.

I'm going to go and look up blue acaras too ... as I think I've seen these before and thought they were very nice.

Is the 1ft height of the upgrade going to be a big problem for any of these species? What would be the minimum height for a fully grown 12" cichlid of the type I'm considering?

The upgrade will be a definite - the only thing that isn't definite is whether it will be 8 or 9', but the other dimensions are definite and it will be happening, probably in the next 2-3 months. And I don't at all mind holding off getting these fish until the upgrade is nearly ready or even until the upgraded tank is up and running.

 

[minxfishy]

Well with a 12" cichlid, your need a minimum of 15" height, 18" being better.

Java Fern and Anubias wont be eaten, but maybe played with, my sevs thoroughly enjoy nipping my anubias plants (the only plant I can keep alive) and spitting it out around the tank, its not a major problem, just annoying

Cabomba I would imagine would be easy pickings though and probably the Sword, although some people find they leave the swords alone. Your best bet is to feed them lots of veggies, mine love love love peas and cucumber.

I have Surinamensis, lovely beautiful fish, as they grow the extensions from their fins are gorgeous.

 

[VickiandKev]

I will make it 18" high then, I'd rather provide properly for whatever I choose to keep

Worst comes to the worst, I can just use my plants in my other 6ft tanks and keep the 8/9ft as a mainly fern/moss/anubias tank with lots of bogwood - would this suit cichlids?

I'm really smitten with chocolate cichlids now - just seen an absolutely gorgeoues picture of an adult and it completely made me go

I'm going to keep looking around and asking advice until I settle on something that will suit my community. It's good to know that I wasn't far off though

I'm going to keep getting smitten with everything lol!

 

[VickiandKev]

Would 6 be the minimum number of geophagus surinamensis to keep together?

If so, would my current tank be big enough for 1.5" juveniles - and would my 8 or 9ft upgrade be big enough for my current stocking plus 6 adult geo?

My OH just got back and I showed him the photos and he ain't all that impressed with chocolate cichlids ( ), but he did like the turqouise severums and the geophagus surinamensis (the geos he liked the most and, contrary to what I thought he would say, he doesn't want to keep a lone cichlid as he's worried it will be lonely).

I just need to know whether they will be okay in my tank size-wise.

 

[Glenbo1981]

Have you considered Geophagus Sp. Red Head Tapajo? they are the nicest type in the Surinamensis complex, they get to around 4-5" and are much prettier in every way, they are actually quite nasty to each other at times, but are pretty much a smaller version of Surnamensis with prettier colours.

Another set of fish to look at are the Demon Eartheaters, anything from the Satonperca complex (usually always marked up as Jurupari)

Don't be tempted to get Geophagus Brasiliensis in large numbers, they are very pretty but are very aggressive fish to others of similar body shape and are very much a 'pair only' type of eartheater.

 

[snowflake311]

I love the Red Head Tapajo. I would have a few but Im fully stocked. can't go wrong with severums. I think they are the perfect cichlid. I got a 100 gal just so I could have more. They are not that bad about plants as long as you feed them a plant based food. Mine is fine with java fern, sword plants, crypto, and mature anubias is safe. Mine did nip at fresh soft shoots of anubias. My new baby likes to pick at the java moss but that's more for fun.

You can find plants they will not bother. Or just make sure they get a good amount of plants in their diet.

There are 1000 of cichlids to pick from. It's such a large group of fish. Just keep doing your reasearch and you will find one that fits your needs.

 

[the420buzz]

I told you there was never a time to not start keeping cichlids

Severums are an awesome choice in my opinion. Colorful and size-y, yet peaceful and full of personality. I definitely want to get another very soon, was actually tempted to buy a juvy today.

Perhaps Blood Parrots (or any of the parrot cichlids) if they interest you, though I haven't kept them so I can't vouch for them too well, and I'm not sure how they'd do with your stocking aggression wise.

I can't think of anymore off hand for some reason, but when I do, I'll get back to you. Glad to see that you've peaked an interest in keeping cichlids though

 

[minxfishy]

Would 6 be the minimum number of geophagus surinamensis to keep together?

If so, would my current tank be big enough for 1.5" juveniles - and would my 8 or 9ft upgrade be big enough for my current stocking plus 6 adult geo?

My OH just got back and I showed him the photos and he ain't all that impressed with chocolate cichlids ( ), but he did like the turqouise severums and the geophagus surinamensis (the geos he liked the most and, contrary to what I thought he would say, he doesn't want to keep a lone cichlid as he's worried it will be lonely).

I just need to know whether they will be okay in my tank size-wise.

Minimum I would say is 4 (I have 4), they feel comfortable in that size group, when one becomes more dominant than the others (and one always does) any aggression is spread between the group and not on any individual. Of course the larger the group the better, so no problem with 6 in a 6ft tank.

 

[VickiandKev]

Thank you guys for all your help, I have seen the Red Head Tapajos - but I gotta admit I really like the idea of having a BIG fish, as I'm going to have a big tank I want some big feature fish. My clown loaches will take their time over growing and my syno won't be very big when he maxes out either.

My partner really like the geophagus altifrons - and I know the Maidenhead near me sells them. The only big problem I can see here is the pH of my water, my tap water comes out at 8.5 - but with the addition of almond leaves it comes at about 8.0 in my tank. I have read over and over that these species are prone to HITH if kept at too high a pH.

Does this mean I can't keep these South American cichlids?

Does anyone keep these cichlids at a similar pH to what I have with success?

I want to do what's best for the fish at the end of the day, I would really love some, but I won't get them if they're essentially just going to get ill and live a shortened life.

I am in the process of sourcing peat to add to my filters though. My OH keeps a lot of plecs from South America (L200, L128 and bristlenose) so we really need to be looking at ways to lower and stabilise the pH for those fish.

I might just have to bite the bullet and go RO - but really don't want to at this point in time, in honesty

Also, what is a fair price for a 4" geophagus altifrons or similar sized geophagus surinamensis. I've found altifrons for £15 a pair.

 

[Wills]

Sounds like Minxy has you on the right track With the geos though, true Geophagus Surinamensis are very rare now as no one exports from Surinam any more so most fish under that name are actually Altifrons or sometimes Albios. And even then Altifrons has a lot of regional variants which range in size between 8 - 12 inches so if you can find F1 or F2 bred ones you will be able to judge them but with commercial bred ones its pretty hard to judge which they are at times. Also I agree with Minxy that they should be in a group of 4-6 they are quite gregarious cichlids not schooling but like uarus like their groups.

But to be fair a pair of 4 inch altifrons for £15 is a bargain IMO I paid £7 each for my 4 and they were under 2 inches when I got them.

If you start to alter your Ph with peat or RO make sure you start to drop the Ph slowly otherwise it could shock them. HITH can come from water quality issues so high Ph could be an issue in that.

A few other SA cichlids for you to think of, true parrot cichlids, panda uaru, krobia, cupids, guinacaras.

Sounds like a really nice tank though!!

Wills

 

[Glenbo1981]

I was offered a single Altifrons @ 9" for £20 the other day or a breedign group of 3 varying in sizes of between 7"-9" (including the single mentioned earlier) for £50, but went with the Tapajos instead.

 

[Wills]

I was offered a single Altifrons @ 9" for £20 the other day or a breedign group of 3 varying in sizes of between 7"-9" (including the single mentioned earlier) for £50, but went with the Tapajos instead.

I paid £30 for my 4 babies but I dont know I guess its what I expected most shops near me sell bigish geos for £22 each and small for £7 each so I just went with it.... Im happy with them so its cool