Cichlid Behavior During Cycling

[gillagain14]

I am a newbie and want to know, mainly, if Im doing everything right. I have a 20gal long tank with pebbles and medium sized rocks. I have a 30gal filter and started filtering my water about a week before i got fish. I didn't know about the cycling process until after i got my fish so, i wasn't off to a great start. I currently have 4 african cichlids(1.5-2 inches), 5 Tiger Barbs, and 1 common pleco. I know the book says not to put barbs and cichlids together but my cousin has had turtles, goldfish, a molly, and barbs together for years and they are all doing great. Plus, its actually only cichlids chasing eachother, and barbs nipping at eachother, no barb on cichlid action... Also, it sounds like im overstocked, but again i didn't know about the cycle process prior to buying the fish, and was planing on getting a bigger tank once the fish get bigger...

Now, my questions:
After about 3-4 days i noticed my barbs seemed to be gilling (rapid breathing) alot so i started researching and then found that I was way behind the eight-ball. I started doing water changes and right away they seemed happier. My latest test read ammonia at 0, nitrites at 5-10 (im doing daily 10-15% water changes and the nitrites are still very high. Nitrates are around 40-80, but I read that that might be a false reading from the nitrites (correct?). I am afraid to do really large water changes (50-75%) because i read that really slows down the cycle process. So, should i continue the 10-15% daily water changes, or should I start doing larger changes?

My second question is mostly about fish behavior. Since im new, i jsut want to know if the fish are behaving normally, considering the water condition. My electric yellows are shimmering ALOT. I read that that is normal when they are trying to mate, but they are shaking erratically, constantly, and also scraping against the rocks and pebbles. Plus im pretty sure both yellows are males. Is this normal behavior when the nitrite levels are high? Im pretty sure the other 2 cichlids are female Kenyi. Is this a female Kenyi?--> The Kenyi are not shaking. One of them is always hiding because the other is always chasing it. Is it normal for the stripes to be darker on the one that is always hiding? Finally, the barbs are standing on their head all the time. Is that normal, or is it because of the nitrites as well?

My pleco seems to be doing great, thankfully!

Sorry this is such a long post, but I appreciate any help you guys can give me. Thanks!

 

[ShinyCard255]

I just did a quick glimpse, but are your nitrites 0.05-0.10 or literally 5-10? If they are higher than 0.25ppm, it is harmful to the fish. Your nitrites should ALWAYS be zero, if not do a water change. It's just as harmful to fish as is ammonia. Do an 80% water change to bring it down.

Ammonia should also read 0ppm.

What are you testing with, strips or liquid? If strips, throw them away and go buy some liquid tests. Strips are very inaccurate

I dont own cichlids so I can't help you there

 

[creeker]

The symptoms you describe with your cichlids (shaking, scratching, etc.) are consistant with poor water quality.

 

[the_lock_man]

My latest test read ammonia at 0, nitrites at 5-10 (im doing daily 10-15% water changes and the nitrites are still very high. Nitrates are around 40-80, but I read that that might be a false reading from the nitrites (correct?). I am afraid to do really large water changes (50-75%) because i read that really slows down the cycle process. So, should i continue the 10-15% daily water changes, or should I start doing larger changes?

My pleco seems to be doing great, thankfully!

A common plec will grow to 24" - if you keep it in your current tank, its growth will be stunted (ie the body stops growing, but the internal organs don't). I appreciate you say that you plan to get a bigger tank, but with the best will in the world, sometimes these plans have to go on the backburner. I'd suggest rehoming it now, and buy a new one when you get the bigger tank.

Now, to the more pressing problem.

Technically, yes, the tank will cycle quicker with higher ammonia levels. However, I don't really want a cycled tank with dead fish. I'd much rather my fish were healthy, and the cycling took longer. My 1st tank took about 4 months to cycle fully. The tank will still cycle with ammonia at lower levels than our test kits can detect.

Nitrite inhibits the ability of the fish's blood to absorb oxygen - effectively, it suffocates them. That's why you should keep those levels as close to 0 as you can. That's why I believe you should forget the 10% changes, and go for big ones.

My recommendation is that you get your bucket out and change as much water as you possibly can - just leave the fish enough room to swim upright in. Try to get the temperature of the new water as close as you can to that of the old water. Then test again. If you still see ammonia or nitrite, change water again. And keep testing and changing until your level reads "0".

If you were to rehome the plec, this would also help with this problem as well, as they are very messy, and cause ammonia levels to build up quickly. In any event, only feed the fish every couple of days or so, this will again reduce the amount of ammonia produced by the fish. This will then lessen your workload.

Hope this helps.

 

[fluttermoth]

I agree 100% with the Lock Man's post.

I'd just like to add though, that you can't keep Rift Valley cichlids with tiger barbs; they're not only far too aggressive, they need much harder, more alkaline water than the barbs could cope with.

African cichlids also need to overcrowded to prevent any fish being picked on too much; the only reason you're getting away with it at the moment is because they're juveniles. Once they reach sexual maturity, all hell is going to break lose...

The one that's hiding all the time is darker because it's stressed; dark colouration and/or more prominent stripes than other fish is nearly always due to stress or disease in fishes.

You really need to decide which sort of fish you want to keep. If it's the Africans you're going to need a much larger tank than 20g. We have a specialist forum for Old World cichlids and you should ask in there for advice if that's the road you want to go down. If it's the barbs, well, you can just about get away with them in a 20g, but the cichlids will have to go.

Sorry I can't be more positive

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I agree 100% with the Lock Man's post.

I'd just like to add though, that you can't keep Rift Valley cichlids with tiger barbs; they're not only far too aggressive, they need much harder, more alkaline water than the barbs could cope with.

African cichlids also need to overcrowded to prevent any fish being picked on too much; the only reason you're getting away with it at the moment is because they're juveniles. Once they reach sexual maturity, all hell is going to break lose...

The one that's hiding all the time is darker because it's stressed; dark colouration and/or more prominent stripes than other fish is nearly always due to stress or disease in fishes.

You really need to decide which sort of fish you want to keep. If it's the Africans you're going to need a much larger tank than 20g. We have a specialist forum for Old World cichlids and you should ask in there for advice if that's the road you want to go down. If it's the barbs, well, you can just about get away with them in a 20g, but the cichlids will have to go.

Sorry I can't be more positive

+1

 

[gillagain14]

Thanks for all the fast responses! I'm definitely going to start larger water changes. As for the combination of barbs and cichlids, Im going to wait it out and see how they react with eachother. Like I said my cousin is breaking the rules with turtles, goldies, and barbs and his fish are happy as can be. From my research on water quality for the barbs and cichlids, it seems to me that a stable water environment is much more important than the exact pH, and dH levels. Meaning, if i keep the water at a constant pH level, and a constant hardness of around moderately Hard, both fish should thrive. Please correct me if im wrong since I am still learning.

Also, like i said, Im 100% getting a larger tank within the next year before the fish get too big. I didnt want to drop a couple hundred dollars on a nice 55 or larger tank before i even knew if i liked the hobby.

Lastly, can anyone tell me if my fish actually is a female Kenyi, or is it to young to really know? I'd like to know so i can understand their behavior more...

Thanks again!

 

[micko]

I'm sorry but why ask for imformation and then do your own thing anyway? People on the forum have the best interests of your fish at heart.

 

[the_lock_man]

I'm sorry but why ask for imformation and then do your own thing anyway? People on the forum have the best interests of your fish at heart.

Fair do's Micko - we aren't the aquarium police. If the OP doesn't want to accept the advice he's been given (and that wasn't his initial query, just something Flutter offered up as a side issue), it's their choice, and he will enjoy/suffer the consequences, whatever they may be. However frustrating it may be for you or me, that's all we can do is advise.

 

[gillagain14]

I'm sorry but why ask for imformation and then do your own thing anyway? People on the forum have the best interests of your fish at heart.

I knew someone was going to say something... I didnt want to come off as unappreciative. Im going to take all the advice you guys are giving me. Im just saying I want to see how my fish react with eachother as they grow, because right now, they arent being aggressive towards eachother. All i was saying about the stable water environment was that that's what i have read in alot of articles and wanted to see what you guy thought. Trust me I wouldnt have started posting on this forum if i didnt think the posts i've read seemed the most knowledgeable.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm sorry but why ask for imformation and then do your own thing anyway? People on the forum have the best interests of your fish at heart.

I knew someone was going to say something... I didnt want to come off as unappreciative. Im going to take all the advice you guys are giving me. Im just saying I want to see how my fish react with eachother as they grow, because right now, they arent being aggressive towards eachother. All i was saying about the stable water environment was that that's what i have read in alot of articles and wanted to see what you guy thought. Trust me I wouldnt have started posting on this forum if i didnt think the posts i've read seemed the most knowledgeable.

No, they aren't being aggressive with each other yet, but they will once they reach maturity. Goldies and barbs, like your cousin has, are a very, very different propostion altogether.

African cichlids are one of the most, if not the most, aggressive of all fish families; I don't have them myself, but my mum has jept them for the last 14 or 15 years, so I am very familiar with them.

Yes, a stable pH and hardness is more important than the actual level; for most fish; Rift valley cichlids are an entirely different matter, and will not thrive otherwise; you really need to keep the pH above 8, which is just too high for the barbs, leaving aside for the moment the aggression issues.

 

[gillagain14]

well, i guess i have to find a home for my barbs then, cause theres no way im getting rid of my cichlids, they are too cool! Thanks.

Plus, then ill have room for more cichlids! once, the cycle is done of course. Dont want to bring in new guys if my water is still bad.

 

[dh058977]

well, i guess i have to find a home for my barbs then, cause theres no way im getting rid of my cichlids, they are too cool! Thanks.

Plus, then ill have room for more cichlids! once, the cycle is done of course. Dont want to bring in new guys if my water is still bad.

You will not have room for more cichlids, your tank isnt even big enough for the 4 you have.

 

[Greg_DS]

"Im 100% getting a larger tank within the next year before the fish get too big"

What you need to understand is your going to stunt your fishes growth in the small tank, its not a matter of waiting till there too big as they release a hormone to prevent them getting bigger in small tanks, this is not healthy at all.

You need to get these guys into a bigger tank and let them grow naturally, there not toys for you to experiment with, there living beings and should be treated with a bit more respect.

As for your cousin, words fail me.