Choosing a Centrepiece Fish

[jaylach]

6-7.5 pH for the Bolivian Rams. The water is very soft, so the slightly higher pH wouldn't be an issue as long as it's stable.

I in no way claim to be an expert but DO have a fair amount of 'old school' experience. A PH of 7.8 is in no way soft and would do better for African Cichlids. The PH would indicate high alkalinity while south American cichlids prefer acidic water... lower PH.

I may be totally wrong but I think that your water conditions will shorten the life span of your fish.

 

[jaylach]

6-7.5 pH for the Bolivian Rams. The water is very soft, so the slightly higher pH wouldn't be an issue as long as it's stable.

6 is very soft but 7.5 is rather hard. You previously stated 7.8 for PH. Unless my understanding is totally wrong I can't see how this can be soft water.

 

[KiwiGal77]

6 is very soft but 7.5 is rather hard. You previously stated 7.8 for PH. Unless my understanding is totally wrong I can't see how this can be soft water.

Our water hardness (CaCO3) is 45, very soft. It just also happens to be alkaline, which isn't common but is possible.

 

[GaryE]

The whole centrepiece fish idea is part of aquascaping - a living moving part. I don't like it as an approach, as a well set up tank draws the eye, and we look at our own tanks. If you have a tank in the lobby of a business, then yeah, a big shiny fish in the middle of small pretty fish will make people look.

I used to use pearl gouramis as centrepieces. Then I realized I didn't like watching them pick at each other, even though they checked the boxes for centrepieces - large flat side, eye catching, social...

I'm throwing this your way as food for thought, and you can easily reject it. But the central fish in any aquarium is the one you like best. You went right for small shoalers. A good shoal is more appealing than a lonely angelfish. If you like dwarf Cichlids, gouramis, etc, build the tank around them. Otherwise, you're designing your tank to answer an old school fashion in how you should set up. The hobby has moved away from centrepieces, rightly or wrongly, and gone more towards planted habitat tanks that provide a spectacle through the entire aquarium, and don't need focus point fish.

Focus planning fish are a different question. I love Boliviam rams (M. alstispinosus). If you ditch the harlequins and gouramis, you could have a very good South American focus on that set up.

 

[Colin_T]

The pH is not an indicator of how hard or soft the water is if the water is coming out of a tap and supplied to you by a water company. Water companies regularly add buffers to raise the pH of the water so it is above 7.0 and doesn't damage the water pipes.

You can have soft water (low mineral content) with a high pH (above 9.0).
You can have hard water (lots of minerals) with a low pH.

If you are talking about rain water, ground water or dam water that has not been treated in any way by anyone, then water with a low pH is usually soft, and water with a high pH is usually hard. But any treated water coming out of a tap will normally have a pH above 7.0 and could be soft or hard.

 

[jaylach]

The whole centrepiece fish idea is part of aquascaping - a living moving part. I don't like it as an approach, as a well set up tank draws the eye, and we look at our own tanks. If you have a tank in the lobby of a business, then yeah, a big shiny fish in the middle of small pretty fish will make people look.

I used to use pearl gouramis as centrepieces. Then I realized I didn't like watching them pick at each other, even though they checked the boxes for centrepieces - large flat side, eye catching, social...

I'm throwing this your way as food for thought, and you can easily reject it. But the central fish in any aquarium is the one you like best. You went right for small shoalers. A good shoal is more appealing than a lonely angelfish. If you like dwarf Cichlids, gouramis, etc, build the tank around them. Otherwise, you're designing your tank to answer an old school fashion in how you should set up. The hobby has moved away from centrepieces, rightly or wrongly, and gone more towards planted habitat tanks that provide a spectacle through the entire aquarium, and don't need focus point fish.

Focus planning fish are a different question. I love Boliviam rams (M. alstispinosus). If you ditch the harlequins and gouramis, you could have a very good South American focus on that set up.

I absolutely and totally agree! While I want South American red breast dwarf cichlids as my main fish I would take a cool pleco over the cichlids if I could only have one or the other. I REALLY like cichlids but I totally LOVE plecos. I would go with my love rather than my like.

Pick a fish that you just can't do without then build everything around that beasty.

 

[Byron]

From what I've read, heard and seen, unlike the German or Golden Rams, the Bolivian Rams are usually fine in groups of 4+ in a well planted community tank with lots of hiding spaces and separate areas, especially if you have 1 male and 3 females. Likely you'll get a pair who will find a territory, and the other 2 will hang out peacefully in the rest of the tank. I'd be happy to try that, and then remove any fish if there were fighting issues.

I'd be interested to know where you read this misinformation. It is absolutely not the norm with respect to this species (either "ram" actually). First, the tank space here is much too small for anything other than either a lone ram or a clearly-bonded pair. The issue is territory. The fish in the store tank usually tolerate each other because they are crowded and cannot properly play out their inherent behaviours. In the habitats these normal interactions work because the individual fish have the space to keep out of each other's way/territory. This is not the case in most home aquaria unless they are huge tanks. If a pair do form and spawn, there is every likelihood that the two females "left over" will be hounded to death by either the female or the male or both. I have had this occur with species of Apistogramma too. It is just not humane to put these fish in such artificial situations where they will be continually stressed.

I had a male in a 5-foot very well planted tank, and added a female (back when I did not understand the above). They spawned four times, but then the male had enough and he killed the female. Even 5-feet of space could not protect her. Looking back at their interactions now with hindsight, it is easy to understand what was going on and why.

 

[GaryE]

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I had a male in a 5-foot very well planted tank, and added a female (back when I did not understand the above). They spawned four times, but then the male had enough and he killed the female. Even 5-feet of space could not protect her. Looking back at their interactions now with hindsight, it is easy to understand what was going on and why.

I wouldn't suggest starting the hobby with Cichlids, even mild mannered Bolivian rams. One piece of info I stumbled across years ago still makes me think. The common krib, P pulcher, on average holds a territory of 3 square metres. That is a lot of aquarium, and sharing isn't easy for them.

Bolivian rams come from a very different environment than the Colombian or Venezuelan ramirezi ram. Their natural waters are cooler, at 22-26, and the hardness is higher, in the soft/medium range with a pH in the 7 range. People like to overgeneralize based on the more popular Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (Bolivians are M. altispinosa).

 

[KiwiGal77]

Thank you everyone - always good to hear different opinions and ways of setting up a tank and deciding which fish to put in

I personally like having a tank which has 2-3 types of schooling fish, then a feature fish that is slightly larger (or at least looks larger due to body shape) and different coloured to stand out from the others. It may be an "old" way of thinking and designing tanks - but that doesn't bother me, as long as the fish are healthy, happy and fully compatible.

I love both the Harlequins, Neons and Cory - so I would like to keep them as a base. I'm not too worried about the Diamond Tetras, that idea was more about having something that was larger and a different shape & colour to the other 2 schooling species. But realising that perhaps what would suit me (and the fish) best would be to scrap them, and instead get the couple of feature fish to fill that job.

I think the Bolivian Ram debate can go on and on, so will leave that. Lots of different people and experts around the world seem to have differeing experiences with that fish.

 

[jaylach]

Thank you everyone - always good to hear different opinions and ways of setting up a tank and deciding which fish to put in

I personally like having a tank which has 2-3 types of schooling fish, then a feature fish that is slightly larger (or at least looks larger due to body shape) and different coloured to stand out from the others. It may be an "old" way of thinking and designing tanks - but that doesn't bother me, as long as the fish are healthy, happy and fully compatible.

I love both the Harlequins, Neons and Cory - so I would like to keep them as a base. I'm not too worried about the Diamond Tetras, that idea was more about having something that was larger and a different shape & colour to the other 2 schooling species. But realising that perhaps what would suit me (and the fish) best would be to scrap them, and instead get the couple of feature fish to fill that job.

I think the Bolivian Ram debate can go on and on, so will leave that. Lots of different people and experts around the world seem to have differeing experiences with that fish.

An important factor, in my humble opinion, seems to have been left out here. Of course you need to get fish that have the same needs as to water conditions and will get along. However there is another factor involved that being that you also need to get along with the little beasties. Getting fish you don't like just because they will work is not the best of ideas.

I would suggest that you find what you absolutely MUST have as your feature fish then fill in the supporting cast with fish that you also like and need the same conditions. For instance... while I'm sure that there may be exceptions... you would not want to mix African and South American fish just due to the difference in PH requirements.

It isn't just the fish that need to be happy. You need to be happy too.

 

[KiwiGal77]

An important factor, in my humble opinion, seems to have been left out here. Of course you need to get fish that have the same needs as to water conditions and will get along. However there is another factor involved that being that you also need to get along with the little beasties. Getting fish you don't like just because they will work is not the best of ideas.

I would suggest that you find what you absolutely MUST have as your feature fish then fill in the supporting cast with fish that you also like and need the same conditions. For instance... while I'm sure that there may be exceptions... you would not want to mix African and South American fish just due to the difference in PH requirements.

It isn't just the fish that need to be happy. You need to be happy too.

I'm not sure what makes you think I'm looking at fish I don't like? I'm only looking at fish I like, and selecting from them which ones work best together and can thrive withing my water parameters. I love the harlequins, neons, cory, otos & golden bristlenose that I've already decided on as the base. And all of the feature fish I'm tossing up between are ones I really like too. They're all fish I've previously kept versions of

 

[jaylach]

I'm not sure what makes you think I'm looking at fish I don't like? I'm only looking at fish I like, and selecting from them which ones work best together and can thrive withing my water parameters. I love the harlequins, neons, cory, otos & golden bristlenose that I've already decided on as the base. And all of the feature fish I'm tossing up between are ones I really like too. They're all fish I've previously kept versions of

I didn't mean to imply that you were looking at fish you didn't like. My post was just a general observation.

 

[KiwiGal77]

I didn't mean to imply that you were looking at fish you didn't like. My post was just a general observation.

All good. It is a very important point! I watch a lot of MD Fishtanks, and he is always saying that if you don't like your tank or the fish in it then you won't have the motivation to look after it properly. So true ay

 

[Brighton Fan]

All good. It is a very important point! I watch a lot of MD Fishtanks, and he is always saying that if you don't like your tank or the fish in it then you won't have the motivation to look after it properly. So true ay

I don't agree with that. If I don't like my setup or fish I make changes. I love the hobby to much to lack motivation. Its a learning curve. It's ok for him to not like fish because he can take them back without issue. Many people don't have that luxury as fish shops rarely accept fish from ordinary folk.. He also takes fish back if he gets bored of them. That doesn't sit well with me and that isn't good practice for people watching his videos