Check my fish shopping list?

[marnold00]

There is a chance the thicklip may not be the biggest fan of the odessas as they will be very active and potentially boisterous with each other. In reality with 8 chunky active fish like odessas (once theyve grown a bit) i think youll be fine without a centrepiece. Once youve had the odessas a while youll know their personalities and be able to make an educated guess on adding the gourami.

 

[ChrisKH]

Thanks again Marnold, I'll have to try and find somewhere that has them now!

As promised, the test results are as follows: (Also added to main post)
pH: 8-8.2
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

After re reading what I had read about cycling and reading more write ups on it I'll be ordering some Kleen off to get that going properly.

Thanks again to everyone!

 

[Byron]

I'd say keep testing the pH and if it doesn't come down enough for your liking (I like to try and keep mine midway through the range), then add a chemical pH corrector.

Other members have already advised against this (using pH adjusters), but I thought it may help to exp[lain why this doesn't work.

First, pH is not stand-alone, it is one factor in the water chemistry. The GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) are also part of the chemistry, and in most cases these determine your pH.

KH works to "buffer" ph, preventing it from fluctuating. The higher the KH, the more it buffers. So if the source water KH is for example around 150 ppm (= mg/l) or 8 dKH, it it going to have a considerable effect, and the pH will remain what it is in the source water. Adding any pH adjusting chemical intended to lower this pH will cause it to quickly lower (depending how much is used), then within 24 hours it will rise back to where it was; this we call fluctuating pH, and it is extremely stressful on all fish.

We don't know the KH here, but as the GH is so high, it can be assumed the KH will be similar, as the two are related. The pH is normally high as well, meaning on the basic side of 7 (above 7.0). There is much more to the chemistry but I am being very basic to explain the danger in attempting to mess with the pH.

In every aquarium with fish the organics occurring from fish excrement and other sources will be broken down by bacteria in the filter and substrate. This biological process produces ammonia and CO2. The CO2 causes carbonic acid, and this works to lower the pH. However, here again the KH "buffers" this, and the higher the KH, the less likely the pH will lower naturally.

We can add natural substances to target the pH, but just like the buffering described above, these natural substances may or may not have much if any effect. Wood, peat, dried leaves are all organic and as they break down they release the tannins and acids and CO2. But the KH also buffers this, depending upon the extent of all of it.

Similarly we can add calcareous substances such as rock, gravel, and/or sand that is composed of calcium and/or magnesium. Limestone, dolomite, aragonite, marble, coral and shells are all calcareous. These will slowly dissolve, adding minerals to the water which raises the GH and KH and pH.

Any attempt to adjust the pH must take into account the GH and KH, and these may need to be dealt with. Very generally, a high GH/KH usually means relatively high pH, and a very low GH/KH usually means a lower (acidic) pH. Again, very general to keep it simple. But the point is that you should never go after the pH without first factoring in the GH and KH, and all three usually have to be dealt with. GH impacts fish the most of these, but pH can also be an issue, especially if it fluctuates.

Byron.

 

[ChrisKH]

Thank you for that thorough post Byron, that's really good to know. I find things like that stick with me better if I know the reason behind them.
I've started adding ammonia (Kleen off ammonia) to the tank and will test the levels on Saturday. I have no idea how much I need to add, which seems to be the general idea when using non aquarium products, so I've started with two drops and will scale that up (or down!) based on the test results. (Having finally found a calculator this seems to be way too small an amount).

I've formulated the following from what I've read.
Every 3-4 days:

1. Check ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels
2. Add small amounts of ammonia based on those levels (aiming to keep ammonia at 3-4ppm) supposedly this should be about 2.55ml (First addition) according to the calculator here: http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm
3. Repeat until ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 and nitrates are up.

Thanks again to all of you for the help!

 

[Essjay]

I've formulated the following from what I've read.
Every 3-4 days:

1. Check ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels
2. Add small amounts of ammonia based on those levels (aiming to keep ammonia at 3-4ppm) supposedly this should be about 2.55ml (First addition) according to the calculator here: http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm
3. Repeat until ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 and nitrates are up.

Thanks again to all of you for the help!

That is the old way of fishless cycling which makes so much nitrite it is likely to stall the cycle. A better way of fishless cycling is written up on here http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/
If followed exactly, nitrite can never get high enough to stall the cycle.


A few years ago I emailed Jeyes to ask about their Kleen Off ammonia since the bottle gave very little information. They confirmed it contains nothing but ammonia and water, and they said it was 9.5%. Though this was a few years ago so the % might have changed since then.

 

[Ch4rlie]

You can use the calculator from this forum -

At the bottom of that page, you'll find "Fishless Cycling - Ammonia Required".

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

All you need to do is input a fairly good idea of water volume not forgetting to substract around 12% to accomodate for substrate, plants and decor
(say the tank instructions says its a 100 litre tank, simply substract 12% off 100litres therefore the water volume, should be around 88 litres)

3ppm is the desired ammonia amount
But if you're doing a small 5 or 10 gallon tank just for shrimps or bettas, then 1ppm is sufficient as they won't produce a high bioload at all.

Double check the ammonia strength, most ammonia such as Kleen Off is at 9.5%, but some other brand do sometimes varies.
Worth checking otherwise too much or too little will be adding making the cycling more complicated or worse, stalls the cycle.

Then see how much amonia solution is required, job done
A new clean syringe (2ml or 5ml is good) which can be obtained very cheaply online is a good idea for this as will give much more accurate dosings.

lastly if you have not seen the article already yet, this is a good one to follow, I have done this method many times and has never failed me.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/
Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank